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  1. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 3:35pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since you guys are talking about two dollar bills, I thought I'd add at least my two cents.

    It seems to me that so many gun control groups have become angry at Starbucks because (and keep in mind that they're one of the icons of the hippy west coast) they have sent out a clear message to the zomg eeevil gunz crowd:

    That the issue of open carry should be taken to the state's legislature, and not a shop on private property whose rules are simply no more restrictive than the state's current ordinance on the issue.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 6:15pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Headed there in a few to have the future OWS protester (art history major) make me a convoluted latte in support of this.

    Also, anyone arguing whether or not you "need" to be armed in public on a martial arts forum should probably shake their head about for a few minutes until the cognitive dissonance leaks out of his or her eardrums.
  3. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 6:30pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Then you are against free speech and freedom of association. Of course people should be allowed to organize boycotts (or buycotts) or picket a place or hand out flyers or make any demands they like of anyone they like. Anyone who doesn't think so is against freedom of speech and freedom of association.
     
    I should have been more clear, I'm running on very little sleep today. Starbucks is private property. What other people think of their policies regarding their store should not matter one bit unless something illegal is going on there. Hence the point of buying things there today with two dollar bills. I'm not against the ignorant stating their opinion or complaining about carry laws. I'm against them actually succeeding in their misguided quest and pressuring a private corporation into restricting carry.

    Edit: Got it! Don't like it, don't go there. Or move the hell out of a state that allows carry. (Hint. There's Illinois.) But don't go trying to curtail my rights in a roundabout way. That's bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Starbucks is not a franchise.
    That's fair. I know dick-all about Starbuck's corporate structure. Except now that they're not franchises.

    Edit: Awww hell. My brain is rebelling in my attempt to clarify.
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 6:43pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    I should have been more clear, I'm running on very little sleep today. Starbucks is private property. What other people think of their policies regarding their store should not matter one bit unless something illegal is going on there.
    Any business or any other endeavor that doesn't take into account what various sections of the public will think of their various policies—for good or ill, whether we agree with them or not—is going to get into trouble at some point. That's just the nature of the marketplace.


    I'm not against the ignorant stating their opinion or complaining about carry laws. I'm against them actually succeeding in their misguided quest and pressuring a private corporation into restricting carry.
    That's fine. We're on the same side as regards this particular issue.

    Edit: Got it! Don't like it, don't go there.
    Well, with the boycott, they aren't going there, see? Well, not for today anyway, which makes it a rather weak boycott. And they're suggesting that other people don't too. That's what freedom of speech and freedom of association are. You may not like this particular boycott, and I don't either, but that's different than saying that people shouldn't be allowed to hold boycotts or to pressure firms to do what they want. Your free speech alternative is what you've done—go out of your way to buy at Sbux in a way that signals your appreciation of their current policies. You could also start a website, have an open-carry drink-in to the extent Sbux allows you to sit in there drinking, hold a counter-protest ten times the size of any protest these anti-gun people have, or spend all day complaining on the Internet. That's freedom, baby!

    But don't go trying to curtail my rights in a roundabout way. That's bullshit.
    You don't have any rights vis-a-vis Starbucks except for the usual ones (e.g., Starbucks can't say "The toilets are for white customers only.").
  5. danniboi07 is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 7:07pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    So it seems several groups have decided a boycott of Starbucks is in order today. What they want is Starbucks to decide, on a corporate level, that guns are not to be allowed on the company's property.
    As much as I support responsible gun handling, what exactly will a corporate policy from Starbucks accomplish??


    EDIT:

    Ah, Wetware beat me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    What other people think of their policies regarding their store should not matter one bit unless something illegal is going on there. Hence the point of buying things there today with two dollar bills. I'm not against the ignorant stating their opinion or complaining about carry laws. I'm against them actually succeeding in their misguided quest and pressuring a private corporation into restricting carry.
  6. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 8:58pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My first thought was that the anti-gun crowd targeted Starbucks after this:

    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...bay&id=7248503
  7. Vince Tortelli is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2012 10:33pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kinda have to agree with Rivington (my hands feel dirty just typing that. DIRTY HANDS! DIRTY DIRTY HANDS!") one of the elements of a civilization is the application of indirect pressure to make others conform to your own standards and practices whereas without civilization you get people to conform by beheading the non conformers and carrying the heads around on spikes, por encourager les autres.

    That said, I'm gonna go get a frappucino.
  8. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2012 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    My first thought was that the anti-gun crowd targeted Starbucks after this:

    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...bay&id=7248503
    "This myth, that these people are somehow super heroes that are out there ready to take a bullet for you, they're just as likely to put a bullet in you," said Brady Campaign coordinator Karen Arntzen.
    Nice...
    :Determined:
    HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!
    http://ftcy.co/tBAxyj
  9. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2012 9:59am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is in reaction to the fact that after anti gun activists asked Starbucks to ban firearms on premises, Starbucks told them that whether or not guns would be allowed on premises would depend on local law. So Starbucks stayed neutral and the anti gun guys got pissy and now this.

    EDIT:

    From their front page...duuurrrhhhhhh.....

    Guns are not registered and gun owners are not licensed. Criminals and the mentally ill can purchase guns at gun shows where background checks are not required. Known terrorists can legally buy as many guns as they want. In many states guns can be carried into the everyday places where you live your life – restaurants, offices, bars, supermarkets, schools, libraries, sporting arenas – and the list keeps growing.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  10. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2012 10:09am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    This is in reaction to the fact that after anti gun activists asked Starbucks to ban firearms on premises, Starbucks told them that whether or not guns would be allowed on premises would depend on local law. So Starbucks stayed neutral and the anti gun guys got pissy and now this.

    EDIT:

    From their front page...duuurrrhhhhhh.....
    Oh, that's rich. Which state is it where you can take guns to school? If I've missed this awesomeness I need to know so I can move there and send my little sugar plum to school with a .45 strapped to her hip.
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