Article: The Pleasures of Drowning.

[P Marsh]

Not even a professional boxer can be sure what will happen if he hits an assailant squarely on the jaw with a closed fist. The other man might fall to the ground unconscious, or he might not—and without gloves, the boxer might break his hand on the first punch...

Sure am glad he's told me I'm wasting my time with boxing and I'll never survive without his BJJ d34dl3y and save my paper mache bones from the street. The Gracies' balls are so deep in his mouth he practically breathing nut sack.

[Azatdawn]

Sure am glad he's told me I'm wasting my time with boxing and I'll never survive without his BJJ d34dl3y and save my paper mache bones from the street. The Gracies' balls are so deep in his mouth he practically breathing nut sack.

Well, at least he's "backtracking" a bit later when he goes through the various distances. My impression has been mostly that he's been just exposed to BJJ by an expert for the first time and is quite floored (get it, floored, haha...).

[Prone]

P Marsh, I didn't see that in his article tbh. And whenever someone attacks boxing I'm in the front line defending it (my father is an ex-amateur boxer and we sometimes box together although he is 72 years now, he is still very good at explaining fight strategies). It's like that: If you hit someone with a bare hand, it hurts. A boxer won't break his hand though, that's bullshit in 99% of the time (only if he is unlucky).

[P Marsh]

P Marsh, I didn't see that in his article tbh. And whenever someone attacks boxing I'm in the front line defending it (my father is an ex-amateur boxer and we sometimes box together although he is 72 years now, he is still very good at explaining fight strategies). It's like that: If you hit someone with a bare hand, it hurts. A boxer won't break his hand though, that's bullshit in 99% of the time (only if he is unlucky).

I mean nothing against you its just the faceless author for the most part isn't really thinking it **** through. Yes BJJ is very good at what it does but it is most definitely not the golden gift from god to martial artists.

He does say some very good things is just that he/she seems to drop the ball and fall into some pretty big assumptions without much to back them up.

[ermghoti]

P Marsh, I didn't see that in his article tbh. And whenever someone attacks boxing I'm in the front line defending it (my father is an ex-amateur boxer and we sometimes box together although he is 72 years now, he is still very good at explaining fight strategies). It's like that: If you hit someone with a bare hand, it hurts. A boxer won't break his hand though, that's bullshit in 99% of the time (only if he is unlucky).

The author didn't claim a boxer's hand would break, only that it may, and that the boxer does not train ina manner to let him know conclusively what the consequences of full contact bare knuckle fighting are. The criticism is both tepid and accurate, IMO.

[Azatdawn]

The author didn't claim a boxer's hand would break, only that it may, and that the boxer does not train ina manner to let him know conclusively what the consequences of full contact bare knuckle fighting are. The criticism is both tepid and accurate, IMO.

I don't think this point is fleshed out too well, though. He claims that even a novice BJJ guy knows exactly what happens when he applies a triangle choke correctly. So what's a novice at BJJ? Someone who's trained a week? A month? A year?

The whole point actually falls a bit short because, yes, a novice at BJJ may know what happens when he applies a triangle choke correctly. However, actually getting there in a real self defense situation is a whole different deal (in my opinion).

So while the idea behind the whole point might be somewhat true, the light in which it is presented seems dubious.

[Tenebrous]

I don't think this point is fleshed out too well, though. He claims that even a novice BJJ guy knows exactly what happens when he applies a triangle choke correctly. So what's a novice at BJJ? Someone who's trained a week? A month? A year?

The whole point actually falls a bit short because, yes, a novice at BJJ may know what happens when he applies a triangle choke correctly. However, actually getting there in a real self defense situation is a whole different deal (in my opinion).

So while the idea behind the whole point might be somewhat true, the light in which it is presented seems dubious.

I think entering into any fight leaves the result in question, as a general thing. But I do get what he means. If you deliver a nice cross, you probably hurt somebody. Will he go out? Will he act as though nothing happened? Are you going to have to accumulate 10 of those before he falls down? It's possible to do it right and still hurt your hand on occasion.

But regardless of level, a properly applied triangle choke, chokes. There's a little more certainty in the result, admittedly, but the "proper" part is the real hold up. Were someone to correctly apply a triangle choke on their first day, it still chokes the guy on the losing end. Now we can properly guess the odds of a guy on his first day triangling everyone...

[Brazzzuka]

Sam Harris is a hell of a writer. If you haven't read is book the end of faith i would highly recommend it.

By the way this article was a follow up on another one he did on street violence, good one to