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  1. #11
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    Federal government is only allowed to legislate interstate commerce.

    Private sales of private property by private citizens are still more or less uhm...private. The only way you get into trouble is if you are deliberately acquiring merchandise for resale. Now you are a purveyor/vendor and you got rules.
    Gotcha didn't think of it that way.
    Thanks.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    Sounds more like this is a craigslist type transaction than an Online Dealer; if it's within the same state, depending on the state, it's perfectly legal so long as there aren't other barriers to legal completion of the transaction.

    For example, in Florida, I can sell my guns to pretty much whoever I wish, and I don't have to tell anyone; but, I am legally prevented from a few things, mainly:
    I can't buy a gun just to sell it (because I'm not FFL); that's a federal thing, I think, but I believe the state also has similar requirements. And, I can't sell a gun to somebody who's not permitted to purchase, such as minors, felons, etc.

    The TLDR is this article sounds a little alarmist, as IiF noted. Also, "loophole," is an overused word and really doesn't apply. There's no law they're getting around by doing it online if the same transaction was already legal.
    So, what lengths would a reasonable citizen selling a gun be required to go through before they knew it was okay to sell to another person? They would need some means to determine if they were a felon, etc, right?

  3. #13
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So, what lengths would a reasonable citizen selling a gun be required to go through before they knew it was okay to sell to another person? They would need some means to determine if they were a felon, etc, right?
    It varies from state to state. In my state, if you sell a handgun you're required to obtain a pistol permit from the seller, which he would have to get a background check to obtain from the Sheriff. The permit is good for five years. This is not required if the buyer has a concealed carry permit, which involves an even more indepth background check.

    There is no such requirement for long guns.

  4. #14
    Phrost's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure you can run your own background checks when you sell a firearm, through the same system a licensed dealer does, via an ATF form 4473.

  5. #15
    Scrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So, what lengths would a reasonable citizen selling a gun be required to go through before they knew it was okay to sell to another person? They would need some means to determine if they were a felon, etc, right?
    Some states (Like CT) have number you call. You give the permit # of the purchaser and they run the check for you. CT implies that this is REQUIRED, but technically it is not. It is the ONLY way to release yourself from liability, however.

    If no permit, then the seller may want to get have a background check performed on their own. Usually about 40 bucks from any number of places. This does not release you from liability however.

    You could ask the local PD, but they can be reticent to accept this responsibility.

    You can ALWAYS go to a licensed FFL and do the transaction there. There will be fees (some stupidly high, shop around), but doing so will release you from liability.

    Selling a firearm to a private person is dangerous. Namely in that you, the seller, have all the burden of insuring that the purchaser is legal (In your state). If you sell a gun to someone who cannot legally posses one, you have committed a felony. Period.

    Virtually every state discourages it, and some go out of their way to make it seem illegal.
    Last edited by Scrapper; 2/09/2012 4:37pm at .
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

  6. #16
    Scrapper's Avatar
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    Forgot about the ATF form...
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

  7. #17
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Like all laws, gun laws can be murky. For example, in my state I think what it actually says is that the buyer must have a permit or CCW for a person-to-person handgun purchase. It doesn't explicitly lay out the seller's responsibility to verify that the buyer has one of those, though. It also doesn't specify the seller's responsibility to document any of that or maintain any type of record of the transaction.

  8. #18
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    There's no shortage of stupidity in the anti-gun community. They're going to look for "problems" with gun laws in every area they can possibly find because in the end, they aren't just trying to regulate sales, they're trying to tip toe towards a full scale gun ban. That's why we can't give ground to the Brady Campaign no matter how much they whine that we aren't willing to "compromise", because too many of our gun rights have already been "compromised" in the past and if we keep "compromising" then we can expect to have nothing left when all is said and done.

  9. #19
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    I like how the article cites "the victims". What victims?? When was the last time a .50 BMG was used for a crime?
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg

  10. #20
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is like setting up an illegal drug deal online, then complaining that it was legal because it happened.

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