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  1. Shahairazaad is offline

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    Apr 2013
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2013 9:43pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Yao Moon Kung Fu-ju jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If Mr. Bailey was indeed a genuine Duke he would know how to style himself... He styles himself as HSH = His Serene Highness but this is NOT how to address a Duke!! A Duke would be addresses as His Excellency not His Serene Highness! LOL.. I got to know him personally because he became involved with a group of men who were running a Chivalric Order that had a genuine name; However, it is not a "genuine Chivalric Order". It went by the name of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen which was controlled by the Lascaris-Comnenos family for which the Roman Catholic Church tried to arm wrestle them out of the rights to this Order which the Pope lost. I cannot recall the actual date but it was sometime in the mid or late 1950s. For those who are not familiar with what a Chivalric Order is = it is a knighthood which must have an authentic King, Queen, Prince or Princess (which is called the Royal Protector) and a Holy Protector which usually is a man of the cloth such as a Cardinal or Bishop. This so called Order of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen was able to obtain a 501 (c) 3 tax exempt status but from the paperwork I was able to obtain from some years of their activities, the money that was spent for so called charities is highly questionable. I also have a copy of the document where Mr. Bailey got his so called HSH title from a Catholic Priest who introduced me to the fellow he purchased it from. Mr. Bailey paid a few bucks for this so called title. LOL As far as his Tetrarch of Tiggiano Italy... I don't know where he got this notion because this sort of title hasn't been utilized since around the 3rd Century and describes any form of government where power is divided among four individuals. In all the time I was exposed to Mr. Bailey, he seemed to love to brag about himself, a lot. He NEVER once told me or anyone about his being a teacher of the broadsword! He was claiming to be the Prince of an area that does not exist any longer and was part of the Byzantine Empire. He was also claiming to be the "Head of Clan Bailey" however, no one connected to the Scottish Clan Heads agreed with his claim. They told me that Mr. Bailey did try to register himself but was soon rejected because they already had a Clan Head for the Bailey Clan. To style himself as a Duke came from his involvement with that club that involves a man who got in trouble for claiming to be a "Brigadier General" who initially claimed to be the "Count of Essen". Now the man claims to be a Duke of Aswan!! This title originally stems from a woman who claims to be Princess Liala, Grand Duchess of Alexandria, daughter of the Late King Farouk Fuad of Egypt... who was shown photographs of King Farouk and she was quick to point out one of the little girls in the photograph as being "her when she was little". Funny thing is the person who showed her the photograph knew the women in the photograph was none of his daughters but they were his sisters... LOL The fact of the matter is she claims to be a "illegitimate daughter" which would mean she doesn't have the legal authority to bestow royal titles upon anyone!! And the title of Duke is a very high rank.... This is a title reserved for the second son of a King....... a Nephew...... an Uncle..... some closely related to the King!!!! The guy who was in charge and running the so called Order of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen passed away not long ago and his buddy claims to have inherited the title of Duke of Aswan in Egypt from Liala. I have been approached by a few people who this person has borrowed money from and never gotten paid back. This includes the Late Mr. Schmickrath who was runnning the so called Order of Constantine & Saint Helen. He later was forced to change the name because the Lascaris-Comenos family finally caught him. They as still using emblems & arms that are protected under the copy rights law which they high-jacked. Mr. Bailey has opened his own so called Chivalric Order called Order of the Green Cross with the notion that he can follow in the same type of arrangement as those who were running the so called Order of Constantine the Great who has all kinds of Kings, Princes, Princesses, Counts, Barons where each time you run into them, their titles get more grandiose than the last time you ran into them. The practices of those he hangs out with and got help to start his Order, do not follow normal protocols or the ethics which accompany a genuine or valid Chivalric Order. From my years of observance and small involvement, they are set up to make money which only serves for their dinner parties/nonsense and not to help anything. Those who are familiar with Dr. Tae Yun Kim: Grandmaster of Martial Arts joined the Order. She paid $20,000 for he so called title of Grand Dame or Lady Knight.... But someone forgot to tell these poor people that legally only a King, Queen, Prince or Princess of legitimate lines can issue or confirm titles upon a worthy person. Mr. Bailey has a very worthy occupation. He works with disabled children, a very admirable profession. How sad our world has become where people think a piece of paper makes you important.... and worse when a person doesn't have the common sense to realize an ebay purchase of a title makes it authentic...
  2. Shahairazaad is offline

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    Apr 2013
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2013 11:43pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Yao Moon Kung Fu-ju jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I got to know Mr. Bailey fairly well during my couple of years involvement with the Pseudo Order of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen. When Bailey wanted me to introduce him to Mr. Schmicrath (someone who claimed to be a Baron from Belgium initially and later changed his title to Duke of Aswan), I told him I had reservations. I still hadn't heard from people who would be able to confirm who this man and his people were. Bailey didn't care. He wanted me to do this favor for him because he wanted to find out how to "start his own Order"; which he calls the Order of the Green Cross. For those who are not familiar with what a Chivalric Order is = it is an Order of Knighthood.

    Anyone involved in a valid Chivalric Order can tell you there is a "Royal Protector" or in other words a King, a Queen, a Prince or a Princess. And, the Royal Protector must be VALID - and of unquestionable lineage. It must also have a Holy Protector. Schmickrath assured me they had a Bishop attached to the Order. This turned out to be a lie.

    This so called Order of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen managed to obtain a 501 (c) 3 tax exempt status. After people saw I was not hanging around and left, many people left as well. Those handling their income, charitable dispersions and tax claims got copies and gave me some of that evidence. From that paperwork all I can tell you is that their activities, the money that dispersed to so called charities is highly questionable.

    I find it funny that initially Mr. Bailey claimed to be a Prince and now a Duke. You would think Mr. Bailey would know who to style himself....? If he was a Duke he wouldn't style himself as HSH = His Serene Highness. It would be HS = His Excellency! LOL..

    The Pseudo Orders of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen was originally in the hands of the Lascaris-Comnenos family. There has been some question as to their validity because there were arguments were it was said they simply added the Comnenos to their Lascaris surname. The Roman Catholic Church tried to arm wrestle them out of the rights to this Order and lost. I cannot recall the actual date but it was sometime in the mid or late 1950s.

    A Catholic Priest warned me about Mr. Bailey and I chose to give Bailey the benefit of the doubt but I paid a heavy price for that kindness. Afterwards when he began claiming he was the Prince of Cyriacuz, the Priest sent me a copy of the document where Bailey got the title connected with Cyriacuz... there is NO such a place; there is only a Saint Cyriacuz and a Syracuse in New York. The Priest sent me a copy of the original purchase where he showed me how Bailey paid a few bucks for a pretty looking document from this man off EBAY. I guess nobody told Bailey that you can't buy a valid title off ebay...

    As far as his Tetrarch of Tiggiano Italy... I don't know where he got this so called title... But someone forgot to tell Bailey the title hasn't been utilized since around the 3rd Century and describes a form of government where power is divided among four individuals. And, I don't mean a government within a Chivalric Order... It must be a real government... like in land, people (constituents, etc...).

    I find it very strange that in all the time I was exposed to Mr. Bailey, NEVER mentioned being a Master of the Broadsword! he loved to brag about his lineage and knowledge but he NEVER mentioned this information!! Not once did he or anyone in our group every mention that he was familiar with the broadsword either. I think he would have loved to rub everyone's nose in being Master of the Broadsword!! At the time, he had been claiming to be the Prince of Cyriacuz. He was also claiming to be the "Head of Clan Bailey". I was able to speak to those who have connections to the Scottish Clan Heads and how the information is registered with the public. They put me in touch with a few people who laughed when I mentioned his name. Apparently he doesn't care that it is a hereditary title and it doesn't seem that he has a strong enough claim; well at least according to those authorities. They only explained that he tried to register something but it was quickly rejected. And you would think Queen Elizabeth might have something to say about all these people connected to this group claiming titles there which fall under her rule. But knowing what I do about some of those family members, they are probably laughing so hard, and thinking what insane asylum did they escape from!

    While I admit I was initially duped by Mr. Schmickrath into participating with the Order of Constantine the Great & Saint Helen with the promise of helping me bridge the gap between some lost family members and you can call me naive for believing at least it was all for charity's sake.... I paid a sad and difficult price for my involvement! But that is another story. In any case, I soon wised up and found out this man lied to us about everything.

    But I wasn't as naive as you might think. We allowed him to think he was so intelligent and we were so naive that he got sloppy and soon he became extremely comfortable. He showed us how he was dealing in fake titles. He even showed us blank certificates that were ready for signature for Chivalric Orders. He also had metals for these Orders. Problem is that he had no authority over these Orders and he wasn't in the type of power to even possess these documents or metals. This was about the time we discovered the family members he claimed to be able to bridge the gap for us, was a lie. Several valid Royals chased him out of their groups and he was not allowed anywhere near them because he was notorious for doing things he shouldn't be doing. In other fraternities and organizations, he was known for over stepping his bounds. He had been thrown out of several Orders and Organizations over this problem of his.


    Schmickrath was obtaining titles by questionable means for people in his club. For instance, one guy in his group claimed to be a Baron of a place in England which doesn't sound all that bad until you discover that there were nearly a dozen people claiming the same title from the same tiny little town. We won't mention the area due to the sensitive nature of who these people are. But, you'd think they would begin to ask, how many Barons can one tiny town have???

    Schmickrath himself claimed to be a Baron from Belgium when we initially met him. A couple of months later he suddenly became the Duke of Aswan. We were told by him that the title was given to him in lieu of money that a woman claiming to be the daughter of the Late King Farouk Fuad of Egypt, going by Princess Liala, Grand Duchess of Alexandria. Soon a few others came forward asking my help to recover money she owed them!

    After he died last year, his friend, who got in trouble for claiming to be a "Brigadier General" who initially claimed to be the "Count of Essen" and related to Princess Diana by claiming to be a Spencer. Later found out the man had been adopted by his parents and they have nothing to do with the Spencer family. This same man got in trouble by the military for dressing up as a Brigadier General. We are told that he didn't serve in a regular branch of the US Military but possible that he did serve in the Reserves....

    The woman who provided that Duke of Aswan title, alleged Princess Liala claims to be the illegitimate daughter of King Farouk. She was approached by people who had known King Farouk and showed her a photograph of him. The photograph which also has a little boy and some young girls in the background. She immediately pointed one of those girls out and claimed that was her... However, the people with the picture knew that the photo was only a picture of King Farouk and his Sisters... there were NO Daughters present when that photograph was taken!!

    This alleged Princess Liala gave the title of Duke of Aswan to Mr. Scmickrath in lieu of the money she owed him... because of some metals and certificates that Schmickrath paid for and she never paid him back. He also helped her establish her own so called Order. His friend who apparently took over the club after Schmickrath died, claims he is now the Duke of Aswan... He claims his friend left him the title; Problem is that you cannot pass a royal title on to anyone you choose after you die.

    Duke... a very high rank.... is a title usually reserved for the second son of a King....... a Nephew...... an Uncle..... someone closely related to the King!!!!

    A Duke cannot bestow a title upon anyone; less a Duke that bought this title from EBAY and the other thinks it is something you can get passed down from friend to friend...
    Both seem OBLIVIOUS to the fact that ONLY A KING, QUEEN, PRINCE OR PRINCESS CAN BESTOW A TITLE UPON A WORTHY PERSON!

    Distributing titles in the manner these people have been doing it is not only absurd but can open themselves up for legal problem!! The Order of Constantine and Saint Helen during my time was getting people to join their fraternity or better yet, club to pretend to have the power to bestow titles upon people who pay for joining them.

    Example, of those who paid.... if you are familiar with Dr. Tae Yun Kim: Grandmaster of Martial Arts, Doctor of God knows what...and a woman who showed me all kinds of titles... she joined their club. They showed me how she basically paid them $20,000 for the title of Grand Dame or Lady Knight...and upon her demand to be knighted in the same manner as a man would receive a knighthood. What she didn't care to realize was that the ceremony performed upon her on the Queen Mary was equivalent to a man claiming to be a man of the cloth (who isn't a man of the cloth or legally entitled to perform marriages) who just married two people and claimed it was a legal marriage....(I refused to attend after meeting this woman)

    Mr. Bailey has a very worthy and noble occupation. He works with disabled children. I cannot recall if he was just an attendant and or some kind of assistant with their homework. Whatever it was, it was a very admirable profession. How sad our world has become where people think a piece of paper or a slew of made up grandiose titles makes you important....
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2013 11:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I once chatted with a guy who was peripherally involved in this whole pseudo-Holy Order of Whatever lifestyle/hobby/subculture, and I'm happy that was as close as I've ever come to it.
  4. Flyer1962 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2013 7:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well said about speculation. To my knowledge, no one has contacted Mr. Bailey to get his input. I see much conjecture, accusation and the ramblings of some who know just enough of certain subjects to offer opinions - without any facts to back them up in regards to Mr. Bailey.
  5. Flyer1962 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2013 8:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. Bailey does not claim any title under Scots Law (as you put it). He does, however, have recognition under Commonwealth Law.

    Baillie is the typical Scottish spelling and Clan Baillie is recognized by the Lord of Lyon. However, it is not the only spelling and many Scottish Bailey's will attest.

    As for your thought that St. Cyriacus is a church in German, well, that is just one of places with that name. However, it is not the St. Cyriacus that Mr. Bailey is from.

    The proof will not be found (as least to the satisfaction of anyone here) on-line. You have to see the various documents from the Commonwealth and Eastern Orthodox Church as I have.
  6. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2013 10:24pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer1962 View Post
    Mr. Bailey does not claim any title under Scots Law (as you put it). He does, however, have recognition under Commonwealth Law.
    To be the armorial head of a clan does typically mean that you have a title.

    Baillie is the typical Scottish spelling and Clan Baillie is recognized by the Lord of Lyon. However, it is not the only spelling and many Scottish Bailey's will attest.
    I don't disagree that there may be different spellings, but are you claiming that Bailey is a separate clan?
  7. Flyer1962 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2013 11:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKenner View Post
    To be the armorial head of a clan does typically mean that you have a title.

    Mr. Bailey does have a title. It is officially recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Church and many peers within the noble ranks worldwide. The English crown, not so much. There is a lot of history and politics behind that.

    I don't disagree that there may be different spellings, but are you claiming that Bailey is a separate clan?
    Keep in mind what a clan is. It does not have to be recognize by the Court of the Lord Lyon. It helps and obviously adds credibility, however, Lord Lyon controls the coats of arms and does not have legal jurisdiction on what constitutes a clan. Bailey is not recognize by the Court of the Lord Lyon but, and here is where it get interesting, Bailey is legally recognized under Commonwealth law. Since the Court of the Lord Lyon is under Commonwealth law, it does not have to recognize Bailey for it to be legally binding. Now why did Mr. Bailey choose that route instead of appealing directly to Lord Lyon? Cost! It was a heck of a lot less expensive than paying the fees demanded by the Court of the Lord Lyon. So the answer to you question is "yes". Clan Baillie which is older and recognized by Lord Lyon and clan Bailey which legally formed under Commonwealth law.
  8. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2013 10:07am


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer1962 View Post
    Keep in mind what a clan is. It does not have to be recognize by the Court of the Lord Lyon. It helps and obviously adds credibility, however, Lord Lyon controls the coats of arms and does not have legal jurisdiction on what constitutes a clan.
    Didn't say it did. I did say that it recognizes who is the head of recognized clans though.
    So are you saying that Clan Bailey is a modern invention?

    Bailey is not recognize by the Court of the Lord Lyon but, and here is where it get interesting, Bailey is legally recognized under Commonwealth law.
    Wait. Are you saying the commonwealth of nations (formerly the british commonwealth)? Why would they care about clan recognition or heraldry? This makes no sense.

    Since the Court of the Lord Lyon is under Commonwealth law, it does not have to recognize Bailey for it to be legally binding.
    Now I think you're a bit confused. Unless you mean UK law, because the commonwealth is a group of 54 member nations that are sovereign. I don't see them getting involved in scottish heraldry. UK law, maybe - commonwealth of nations, no.

    Now why did Mr. Bailey choose that route instead of appealing directly to Lord Lyon? Cost! It was a heck of a lot less expensive than paying the fees demanded by the Court of the Lord Lyon. So the answer to you question is "yes". Clan Baillie which is older and recognized by Lord Lyon and clan Bailey which legally formed under Commonwealth law.
    So Clan Bailey is a modern invention then? How can he be the 13th armorial head of something that at earliest was recognized in the late 1800s?
  9. Flyer1962 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 12:53am

    Bullshido Newbie
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKenner View Post
    Didn't say it did. I did say that it recognizes who is the head of recognized clans though.
    So are you saying that Clan Bailey is a modern invention?

    That may be where the confusion is. The Court of the Lord Lyon is not authorized to determine who is the head of a clan. In fact, they have nothing to do with that - the clan itself makes that determination. From their own site "The Court of the Lord Lyon is the heraldic authority for Scotland and deals with all matters relating to Scottish Heraldry and Coats of Arms and maintains the Scottish Public Registers of Arms and Genealogies." So you can't claim a Scottish coat of arms or device unless it's approved by the Lord Lyon, but they have no authority over the clans themselves.

    Wait. Are you saying the commonwealth of nations (formerly the British commonwealth)? Why would they care about clan recognition or heraldry? This makes no sense.
    Heraldry and heraldic colleges extend throughout the commonwealth of nations. In Mr. Bailey case, he could have petitioned to the Court of the Lord Lyon and paid a hefty processing fee. The heraldic college of South Africa will register a coat of arms for a fraction of the price. As a member of the Commonwealth, the registration is legally valid in all member nations.


    Now I think you're a bit confused. Unless you mean UK law, because the commonwealth is a group of 54 member nations that are sovereign. I don't see them getting involved in scottish heraldry. UK law, maybe - commonwealth of nations, no.

    The distinction is that Mr. Bailey's coat of arm are not Scottish heraldry and he makes no claims in that regard. In fact, he makes no secret where the registration is from or why he took that path. The fact that is from a membership nation means it's legal status is recognized in all member nation (ok, a couple of exceptions, but we're not talking UK). So, we are talking heraldry in general with a Scottish heritage.

    So Clan Bailey is a modern invention then? How can he be the 13th armorial head of something that at earliest was recognized in the late 1800s?
    Armorial relates to heraldry or heraldic arms; "armorial bearing"
    heraldry - the study and classification of armorial bearings and the tracing of genealogies. As head of the Bailey line (at least, his branch) the is the head. The heraldic devices for his line of Bailey go back quite a ways. As a clan, Bailey is a recent, but not uncommon, development. There have been a handful of Scottish houses that have recently become clan with the selection of a chief.
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