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  1. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2012 10:24am

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Father of MMA? Na, like most of you I don't buy that. More like he championed always striving for better, more realistic training. That's where the legacy lies, and of course in that sense Bruce is no different from a lot of other people...just far more popular. People listened to Bruce (and clearly, a billion+ probably still do, hence the UFC's marketing push).
    No argument there, BL was the most successful advocate of aliveness in the Martial Arts since Kano.

    But imagine if Bruce had continued to champion things like Wing Chun, centerline fighting, and dead training? Yikes, that's an ugly world to imagine...
    He never believed in dead training at all, and trained with the WC people because they were active inter-kwoon fighters.

    That's why we should all remember and love Bruce. He boldly defied the Evil Chun and pointed to Western fighters and said "ah, there can be better ways than those of the Eastern Masters".
    For good or ill, WC is a core component of Bruce's art.
    +++
    The strikers in UFC1-10 were clueless about that, and learned that lesson the hard way when a tiny Brazilian tied them up with his limbs.
    Royce fought in UFC 1-5, and Jimmerson was the only striker he faced who hadn't already started cross training in grappling.

    Gordeau was training with Remco and Hammaker, Ichihara was cross trained in Judo, Delucia had been practicing with the Gracie Basics set for more than a year, Pat Smith was practicing Yudo, Kimo had the Gracie instructionals and was working out with grapplers, as was Hackney. I suppose you could say that Van Clief was a grappling noob, but even he had BB's in JJJ and Aiki-JuJutsu. It's not that Royce opened those guy's eyes to grappling, it's that they were grappling n00bs compared to him. Yes Royce made them look bad, but he made Shamrock look bad too. Royce was just plain better prepared.

    If you followed martial arts in 1991-92 you knew who the Gracie brothers were, and if you didn't own the In Action tapes and the Gracie Basics tapes, chances are you knew someone who did. Hell, a lot of us bought UFC I because there was a Gracie in it.

    The take home message from the early UFC's was not so much that grappling was important for mixed-styles competition, but a realistic assessment of just how important it really was.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/19/2012 10:29am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


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  2. Kengashui is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2012 5:57pm


     Style: still deciding

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bruce Lee is my main inspiration in martial arts

    besides making significant contributions to the way in which martial arts are trained,
    he was one of the first to use electric muscle therapy to supplement his workouts.
    fun fact: one of bruce lee's legs was actually shorter than the other one, and he actually managed to overcome this impediment by developing stances so that he could take ADVANTAGE of it.

    I'm not going to say he is the father of MMA, because there are too many other fighters who had a more significant role in it's development, especially where grappling is concerned.

    To call him just a "flashy movie star" would be assinine, because like many others before him he dedicated a significant portion of his life to help aid in the progression and promotion of martial arts
  3. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2012 6:19pm

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On a related note, the documentary is actually pretty badass. It is a little sensationalized, but it's really worth a watch.
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  4. BigSifu67 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2012 10:23am


     Style: Sub Grappling/MMA/JKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let's face it,the influence of "JKD" on MMA is because of DAN INOSANTO and his (at the time) progressive and openminded approach. thanks to Dan,Jiu Jitsu,shootwrestling,and orthodox lead became mainstays in JKD "concepts".
  5. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2012 11:47am

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     Style: BJJ+Sanda

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BigSifu67 View Post
    Let's face it,the influence of "JKD" on MMA is because of DAN INOSANTO and his (at the time) progressive and openminded approach. thanks to Dan,Jiu Jitsu,shootwrestling,and orthodox lead became mainstays in JKD "concepts".
    The quotation marks should have been around "influence." Bloodsport played a bigger role in the success on MMA than JKD did.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  6. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2012 12:05pm

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Look at the styles that have the most impact on MMA competition and training, and ask yourself what Bruce Lee contributed to their application of aliveness.
    Lee/Inosanto > Vunak > Thornton (+ Richardson/ DB) > + liberal dose of Rickson = "Aliveness"
  7. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2012 5:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You just said "Mind Numbing Stupidity", UFC, and Facebook----
    OH NO!!!!!!


    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
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  8. simonifrius is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2012 2:48pm


     Style: Parkour and Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabetuno View Post
    While Lee's philosophy about aliveness and formless training may have been influential to the traditions now found in MMA, I would actually argue that without Bruce Lee, we might have gotten to this point in MMA a lot more quickly.

    It was his movies that desensitized the American public to a very certain kind of violence: pretty choreographed bad guy/good guy violence. In my eyes, it's this expectation of a certain kind of encounter that jarred and repulsed so much of the populous when they were exposed to actual vale tudo combat, which, as we all know, can often be anything but pretty to the layman.

    If we hadn't had this kind of nonsense filling our head when we first all got exposed to UFC 1, it might have been a bigger eureka moment for a lot of people, rather than the "OH GOD, those guys aren't doing kung fu. That's just street fighting" response that MOST people made before they actually had tried out their Wing Chun on an alive opponent.

    Sure you can argue that Bruce's movies inspired a lot of people to take up martial arts, but they probably inspired a lot of people to believe a bunch of bullshit too. And since I think it's agreed we would have eventually gotten MMA anyway - since it came from a Brazilian family doing a Japanese tradition, not a Chinese guy breaking tradition on TV - it probably would have been better for most people to come watch UFC 1 with 0 preconceived notions of what combat should and shouldn't be, rather than their lofty dreams of Hollywood-come-to-life smashed against the hard pavement of reality.
    So you're saying without Bruce Lee, there would be no Bullshido?

    I actually think I'm on board with that.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/02/2012 2:54pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by simonifrius View Post
    So you're saying without Bruce Lee, there would be no Bullshido?

    I actually think I'm on board with that.
    On opposite day.
  10. Internet-fu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2012 6:13pm


     Style: Still deciding.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorCesar View Post
    Oh my god people, I am most definitely AGAINST the idea that Bruce Lee invented MMA, as clearly stated in the sentence "Like any UFC fan with a working brain, I was puzzled to see the official UFC page spouting such complete bullshit."

    Also, UFC would be UFC regardless if Lee was never even born. I give all the thanks to the Gracie family for this, not a movie actor.
    How much do you know about the life of this "movie actor"?

    You ever studied any of his martial arts philosophy?

    He was mixing Muay Thai, Savate, Western Boxing, AND grappling/ground fighting (Wrestling, Sambo, Judo, etc.) before any Gracie came to the United States. And using it in self defense situations. Not just studying.
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