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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 11:18am

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bruce Lee learned judo and wrestling in private lessons from Gene Lebell for over a year.

    He's dead and still had better training than most of us could probably afford.

    So, there would be no UFC without Gene Lebell.



    /thread
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 2/10/2012 11:22am at .
  2. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 12:57pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    The music industry and gangstsa rap. Yes, there was an entire community of people that liked rap hated gangsta rap. There were protests, attempts at legislation (Where Parental Advisory was birthed), Vinyl burnings, and even an anti-gangsta cultue emerged (ATCQ, Roots, De La Soul) etc etc etc. Actually made it bigger and it crossed into White America. I'm going to say it has the chance of going mainstream if done correctly.
    This is a good comparison. Back in the 90s, gangsta rap was a big deal. Nowadays, while the genre is still influential, the culture itself no longer has the same impact on mainstream America.

    If the UFC continues to focus so much on TapouT meatheads, the same fate could befall it.

    Then again, maybe Dana White does not care about long term growth. Maybe he's just emulating Vince McMahon.


    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 2:56pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    Nowadays, while the genre is still influential, the culture itself no longer has the same impact on mainstream America.
    LOL, it is still in mainstream America nearly everyday and I'd argue has equal if not more impact. It evolved and changed just enough that you no longer recognize the impact. This makes it palatable and people no longer "see" the "same" impact. It becomes "safe" for the "regular" consumer. Exactly what the UFC may be trying to do.
  4. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 6:36pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    LOL, it is still in mainstream America nearly everyday and I'd argue has equal if not more impact. It evolved and changed just enough that you no longer recognize the impact. This makes it palatable and people no longer "see" the "same" impact. It becomes "safe" for the "regular" consumer. Exactly what the UFC may be trying to do.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. When I think of culturally relevant hip hop, I think of Tyler the Creator, Childish Gambino, and Kid Cudi. These guys are more influenced by Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest than gangsta rap.

    Fashion-wise, they dress nothing like gangsta rappers. Hell, nowadays you're just as likely to see a rapper wear a Bad Brains t-shirt as you are to see them with bling.

    Of course, this will also soon change.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 7:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Almost got me. Yep, we will disagree including the "influence" of the rappers you named.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 2/10/2012 7:17pm at .
  6. Bad Apple is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2012 8:08pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    I figure this clip will be referenced a lot:



    I've always wanted to ask the Bullies here about that arm triangle. Specifically could Lee (or whoever) still finish that choke from the bottom ? Should he have disengaged just because he was no longer on top ?
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 2:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The UFC has been pushing the Bruce-as-father-of-MMA meme for a very long time, and for a variety of different reasons.

    My $0.02:

    BL was not interested in sports, and would never advocated any kind of 'MMA'
    BL advocated mixing a kickboxing structure with Gene Lebell Judo
    BL could barely grapple and did not take grappling seriously

    Finally,

    BL inspired many, many people to take up the martial arts, and a few to blend a kickboxing structure with Gene Lebell Judo. Chuck Norris did this, and it led him to form an early relationship with the Machados. John Peretti also pursued this same hybrid form (and for the same reason, ie BL's influence); it led him to limit access (when he was UFC matchmaker) to slots in the UFC to people who were progressive about mixing striking and grappling.

    There's an influence there, but it's hard to credit BL for being the 'Father of MMA' when Judo trained Boxers were fighting Boxing trained Judoka on television before Bruce even took up the arts.



    If you believe Bruce is the father of MMA, you'll likely conclude Milo Savage was the father of Combat Sambo after watching the above.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 2:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    BL inspired many, many people to take up the martial arts
    Lee also inspired many people to break with tradition and train with aliveness, decades before we had Matt Thornton.
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 8:49pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Lee also inspired many people to break with tradition and train with aliveness, decades before we had Matt Thornton.
    Look at the styles that have the most impact on MMA competition and training, and ask yourself what Bruce Lee contributed to their application of aliveness.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  10. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2012 9:15am

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Look at the styles that have the most impact on MMA competition and training, and ask yourself what Bruce Lee contributed to their application of aliveness.
    Father of MMA? Na, like most of you I don't buy that. More like he championed always striving for better, more realistic training. That's where the legacy lies, and of course in that sense Bruce is no different from a lot of other people...just far more popular. People listened to Bruce (and clearly, a billion+ probably still do, hence the UFC's marketing push).

    But imagine if Bruce had continued to champion things like Wing Chun, centerline fighting, and dead training? Yikes, that's an ugly world to imagine...

    That's why we should all remember and love Bruce. He boldly defied the Evil Chun and pointed to Western fighters and said "ah, there are ways other than those of the Eastern Masters, and it can pay off to learn many".


    +++

    Another thing about Bruce that is that he never considered himself "complete", which, sadly, I think a lot of modern fighters do because of ego. I posted the video of Gene Lebell admiring Bruce's desire to never stop exploring martial arts, even ones like judo and wrestling that were clearly outside his comfort zone.

    The strikers in UFC1-10 were clueless about that, and learned that lesson the hard way when a tiny Brazilian tied them up with his limbs. Bruce learned that from Gene Lebell decades earlier, and advocated that kind of cross-training ever after.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/19/2012 9:38am at .
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