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  1. EmperorCesar is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 12:17am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    First off, you misread it. It does not say the "inventor" of MMA, it says he is the "father" and my above hypotheticals would indicate this is somewhat accurate, being that he provided a seed for growth. Second off, why the **** wouldn't they "spout this bullshit" when there is so many UFC personnel involved in the project? Many of whom would most certainly say the man was a huge influence and factor in them taking up martial arts.
    The martial arts renaissance that we have been going through in the past 15 or so years was initiated by the FIGHTERS that stepped up to test themselves against other world class FIGHTERS. After Royce mopped up the place, FIGHTERS everywhere rushed to catch up with the Gracies, and thus the rennaisance began. I give credit to the FIGHTERS that FOUGHT against each other in FIGHTING tournaments. It is an insult to those FIGHTERS to say that without Bruce Lee, there would be no UFC.

    Also, **** Bruce Lee. Anderson Silva started martial arts to be strong like his hero Spiderman. Why not include Spiderman as one of the greatest martial artists ever? There is just as much evidence to prove that claim. (that is to say, none)
  2. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 12:23am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The amusing thing is that traditionally it's been the Bruce Lee fans that have tried to hook Lee up to the UFC. Now it's the UFC hooking themselves up to Lee. Rather than just fuming about "bullshit"—as though the UFC is really running contests to show that sparring is awesome or that krav maga sucks—it might be worthwhile to ask why UFC is interesting in rewriting history...
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 12:31am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now, the **** in that thread is blatantly stupid.

    Still, why not attach yourself to change your image?
  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 12:38am

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorCesar View Post
    The martial arts renaissance that we have been going through in the past 15 or so years was initiated by the FIGHTERS that stepped up to test themselves against other world class FIGHTERS. After Royce mopped up the place, FIGHTERS everywhere rushed to catch up with the Gracies, and thus the rennaisance began. I give credit to the FIGHTERS that FOUGHT against each other in FIGHTING tournaments. It is an insult to those FIGHTERS to say that without Bruce Lee, there would be no UFC.

    Also, **** Bruce Lee. Anderson Silva started martial arts to be strong like his hero Spiderman. Why not include Spiderman as one of the greatest martial artists ever? There is just as much evidence to prove that claim. (that is to say, none)
    Dude, are you illiterate? Take a breath, count to ten (or whatever number you are up to learning at the moment) and re read what I wrote.

    The FIGHTERS might have fought against FIGHTERS, you can credit the FIGHTERS all you like for FIGHTING but if there are only FIGHTERS and a lack of SPECTATORS then that, as a business model, will fail. It's just two dudes sparring.

    If you do not recognise that Bruce Lee is an everlasting and extremely influential player in the history of martial arts exposure in the West, then you are deluding yourself. Furthermore, if you do not recognise that without his influence, there would be much less love on a commercial/ mainstream level for martial arts in general. Further to that, if you do not understand that having an audience facilitates the commercial viability of an entertainment enterprise and that without this influential human being there would be decidedly less of a "lay" (meaning those TapouT wearing douchebags that pay for tickets and scream "stand em up" and buy merch that pays the fighters fucking salaries, I can't believe I am explaining this ****) audience, then you, EC, are someone I will never do business with on any level.

    Spiderman= strawman. You fail.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  5. EmperorCesar is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 12:56am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand that Bruce Lee was influential, I am not denying that. But like I said, to say that there would be no UFC without him is completely ridiculous and utterly false. Bruce Lee made the idea popular to cross train, but it was what happened in the UFC between those fighters that have changed MA forever.

    The UFC post and all of the fans are blowing his accomplishments way out of the water. You aren't doing so, but you are still giving him more credit than he deserves. In the US, the UFC was never popular for a long time yet the martial arts and the fighters continued to change and evolve before it was even remotely mainstream. The UFC hit its mainstream audience with the release of the douchemagnet show "The Ultimate Fighter".

    Bruce Lee inspired people like Bas Rutten, sure. But at the end of the day, it was the fighters and their ever evolving metagame that started the UFC and deserve all the credit in the world. Bruce Lee played a minor role, the fighters played the major role. It disgusts me to see people elevating a movie actor to the level of the fighters. There is absolutely no reason for that.

    And no, I would not do business with me either. I get paid to program, not sell stuff.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 1:06am

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorCesar View Post
    I understand that Bruce Lee was influential, I am not denying that. But like I said, to say that there would be no UFC without him is completely ridiculous and utterly false. Bruce Lee made the idea popular to cross train, but it was what happened in the UFC between those fighters that have changed MA forever.

    The UFC post and all of the fans are blowing his accomplishments way out of the water. You aren't doing so, but you are still giving him more credit than he deserves. In the US, the UFC was never popular for a long time yet the martial arts and the fighters continued to change and evolve before it was even remotely mainstream. The UFC hit its mainstream audience with the release of the douchemagnet show "The Ultimate Fighter".

    Bruce Lee inspired people like Bas Rutten, sure. But at the end of the day, it was the fighters and their ever evolving metagame that started the UFC and deserve all the credit in the world. Bruce Lee played a minor role, the fighters played the major role. It disgusts me to see people elevating a movie actor to the level of the fighters. There is absolutely no reason for that.

    And no, I would not do business with me either. I get paid to program, not sell stuff.
    Yet, you are mixing what the people say to what the UFC is doing. Where does the UFC say Bruce Lee is equal to the fighters in the UFC?
  7. EmperorCesar is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 1:20am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When the UFC makes such a bold statement like "there would be no UFC without him" that is most definitely equating him with the people that actually made the UFC and the martial arts what it is today.

    There would be no UFC without Carlos and Helio Gracie.
    There would be no UFC without the winners like Royce and the losers like Fred Ettish.
    There would be no UFC without the fighters that continued to make the martial arts evolve way before UFC was even remotely popular or mainstream.
    And as much as I hate to say this, the UFC might not be here today without the Ultimate Fighter....

    Those are the people that made this happen. Bruce Lee made martial arts popular, sure. But as soon as you start making his accomplishments equal to those that went in there and risked it all to improve the martial arts for everyone, that is when I get pissed. The statement that the UFC made and what the fans in the comments are saying are so insanely blown out of proportion that it sickens me.
  8. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 1:42am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And where the **** did anyone say there would be no UFC without Bruce Lee? I feel like I need a pitchfork to get through all the strawmen in your arguments. Seriously, if you cannot accept that in order for the UFC to be marketable to a broader audience, then you are missing crucial logical thinking mechanisms and we will find ourselves at this juncture every two or three posts.

    No, Bruce did not invent MMA. He did not invent UFC and he did not invent NHB.

    Yes, he was and always will be credited to bringing martial arts into mainstream culture, paving the way for every male from 2 to 102 to ask questions like, "who would win, Bruce Lee and (person)?" FIGHTERS were always fighting but until those in the mainstream began questing for their answers because they were exposed to Bruce, the FIGHTERS had no fucking audience. Audience = events. Events= money. Money pays fighters.

    We are talking an entirely hypothetical existence here, much like asking if fucking John Wayne had never existed, yeah, there would've been cowboy movies, good ones, but there'd be no duke. There'd be no kids running around going "pilgrim" and those he inspired may never have jumped in front of a camera. But without him the landscape would be drastically different.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  9. csharp.negative is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 2:03am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorCesar View Post
    When the UFC makes such a bold statement like "there would be no UFC without him" that is most definitely equating him with the people that actually made the UFC and the martial arts what it is today.

    There would be no UFC without Carlos and Helio Gracie.
    There would be no UFC without the winners like Royce and the losers like Fred Ettish.
    There would be no UFC without the fighters that continued to make the martial arts evolve way before UFC was even remotely popular or mainstream.
    And as much as I hate to say this, the UFC might not be here today without the Ultimate Fighter....

    Those are the people that made this happen. Bruce Lee made martial arts popular, sure. But as soon as you start making his accomplishments equal to those that went in there and risked it all to improve the martial arts for everyone, that is when I get pissed. The statement that the UFC made and what the fans in the comments are saying are so insanely blown out of proportion that it sickens me.
    Now I get it. Think about it, though, Facebook is only slightly worse than Youtube when it comes to ridiculously stupid comments (they're probably the same people). Yeah, you definitely just need a serious taking of a chill pill. I think you just read too much stupid and the stupid got to you, lol. Battlefields said it very well: had John Wayne not been around, some actors may not be here now, but we'd still have epic cowboy movies regardless.
  10. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2012 2:23am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The point of tying Bruce Lee in with the UFC is to sell more pay per views to the silk pajama crowd that spends a billion dollars a year on stamp-cut shuriken and katanas made in Mexico.
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