Combinging Karate (hand techniques) with Boxing?

[maofas]

You've been in a couple of those threads. Dude who said bad/good karate?

No one told him to quit karate, that it was bad, or it was good. He is being told to stop trying to do what you just said.

Do I need to spell it out?

Nope, don't need you to spell it out, though chilling out would be nice. I meant that if I went into it, I would start sidetracking the discussion into good/bad karate, which is something I don't want to do; it's a decent thread.

[atomicpoet]

You hit the nail on the head with this post, but I just want to include some addendums.

-trying to slap down the lead hand of a boxer in order to create the backfist opening may result in the lead hand circling around your slap and into a hook (hard to block, because your rear hand will have dropped to perform the trap).

I've seen a similar (but uncommon) technique in boxing. Floyd Mayweather Sr. still teaches it along with the Phillie shell. Basically in orthodox stance, you use your right hand to parry a jab/cross, which creates an opening for a stiff jab thrown from below the waist. Most recently, I saw this Nonito Donaire do this against Wilfredo Vasquez Jr. last week.

This takes elite-level fast reflexes, though, so it's not recommended for beginners.

Also they probably won't like it if you throw the spinning backfist in boxing (the pivot punch). You'll likely find that its viewed as a very hard-hitting gimmick punch that only lands because its so unexpected, and that might make the guy throwing it kind of a tiresome pain in the ass to spar with.

Someone at my gym tried a spinning backfist during sparring. He got rabbit punched.

[It is Fake]

Nope, don't need you to spell it out, though chilling out would be nice.

I wish you would, but when you go into super karate defense mode it gets scary. It usually starts out just like your first post.

[Giga Oni]

What a damn good topic we have here.

I have trained previously in Goju ryu and been training boxing for about 3.5 years now, and thats exatly what i do, mix boxing with karate, and it works damn fine for me, look at those arts similarities first and not the differents.
Heres como things i do that might come handy for u

when i punch i always use a boxer body motion, not those flat footed punches in kihon
-i train at least 2x a weak barefist on a heavybag, i always do boxing punchds using the seiken and the fist closed in a okinawan manner, if u dont know what it is heres a picture

http://fightingarts.com/content02/graphics/okinawan_fist01.jpg

u may fell a little strain on ur finger on the first days using this fist, but after that it feels great for landing the two first knuckles/fingers. And the horizontal fist position also helps u cover ur face under ur shoulder.Great with mma gloves also try it out!
- with punches like hooks i end up doing it in the same arm/fist position as a mawashi tsuki like this http://www.karatekas.com/tecnicas/tsuki/mawashizuki.gif

but of course i do it in a `boxing `` manner, guard up chin tucked in and leaning into the punch
- another punch ive always seen as a overhand punch instead of a double strike is the yama tsuki

http://www.maritimeikd.com/images/yamazuki.gif

but instead of hitting low with the other hand i cover my face in a V fashion, like pointing the elbow out.

others things i like to use from karate in a boxing and sanshou (wich i also train right now) sparring are tai sabaki, quickly changing angles in footwork while pushing the ground with one foot and pivoting on another and trying to counter with a hook for example.

i know some ppl may find what i do a little strange but works very well for me, and thats how i could effectively mend two arts that i like together. Hope i could be of some help.
Oss

[shotokanbjj]

What a damn good topic we have here.

I have trained previously in Goju ryu and been training boxing for about 3.5 years now, and thats exatly what i do, mix boxing with karate, and it works damn fine for me, look at those arts similarities first and not the differents.
Heres como things i do that might come handy for u

when i punch i always use a boxer body motion, not those flat footed punches in kihon
-i train at least 2x a weak barefist on a heavybag, i always do boxing punchds using the seiken and the fist closed in a okinawan manner, if u dont know what it is heres a picture

http://fightingarts.com/content02/graphics/okinawan_fist01.jpg

u may fell a little strain on ur finger on the first days using this fist, but after that it feels great for landing the two first knuckles/fingers. And the horizontal fist position also helps u cover ur face under ur shoulder.Great with mma gloves also try it out!
- with punches like hooks i end up doing it in the same arm/fist position as a mawashi tsuki like this http://www.karatekas.com/tecnicas/tsuki/mawashizuki.gif

but of course i do it in a `boxing `` manner, guard up chin tucked in and leaning into the punch
- another punch ive always seen as a overhand punch instead of a double strike is the yama tsuki

http://www.maritimeikd.com/images/yamazuki.gif

but instead of hitting low with the other hand i cover my face in a V fashion, like pointing the elbow out.

others things i like to use from karate in a boxing and sanshou (wich i also train right now) sparring are tai sabaki, quickly changing angles in footwork while pushing the ground with one foot and pivoting on another and trying to counter with a hook for example.

i know some ppl may find what i do a little strange but works very well for me, and thats how i could effectively mend two arts that i like together. Hope i could be of some help.
Oss

sorry i haven't been around to respond, i see the thread had a little argument going heh.

Giga Oni: thanks for the response sir, quite informative, a few questions for you now.

1. so you use that fist, so that means you don't completely rotate your hand over when throwing punches? You prefer the vertical fist as opposed to the horizontal fist if you were to completely rotate your hand? Does this affect your range in any way?

2. When you say elbow pointing out, you mean to say as if i were to cover up one of my sides of my head, my point of my elbow would be facing the same direction as my nose?

3. Have you had ANY sort of success using any sort of karate blocks in a boxing environment? I personally haven't, the closest i've come is using an "inside" block as a parry and only if i'm able to cut an angle quick enough or back away to avoid the next punch, but i can't seem to use them like we're "trained" to in this environment lol.

[dwkfym]

Forget everything you know about shotokan and learn boxing all over again.
Seriously, everything.
This combining of styles thing isn't what it is all made out to be. After you spend a few years doing boxing, you can start at a kickboxing school. With 9 years of karate experience, your karate basics will start to come back.

Honestly, though, you just evolve past things. The only KMA thing I probably still carry with me is probably just the fact that my initial training was at a young age and we did a lot of kicks and explosive movements. Some things stay though. My stance is a bit lower than most my height, and it gives me a good base. My in and out movements are decently quick, even though I'm out of shape. etc. Don't worry so much and keep training, keep sparring, and things will just mesh. Don't think about this style, that style approach everything as if its brand new and keep going. You'll never lose what you have learned in the past if it was sometihng useful to begin with.

[shotokanbjj]

Forget everything you know about shotokan and learn boxing all over again.
Seriously, everything.
This combining of styles thing isn't what it is all made out to be. After you spend a few years doing boxing, you can start at a kickboxing school. With 9 years of karate experience, your karate basics will start to come back.

Honestly, though, you just evolve past things. The only KMA thing I probably still carry with me is probably just the fact that my initial training was at a young age and we did a lot of kicks and explosive movements. Some things stay though. My stance is a bit lower than most my height, and it gives me a good base. My in and out movements are decently quick, even though I'm out of shape. etc. Don't worry so much and keep training, keep sparring, and things will just mesh. Don't think about this style, that style approach everything as if its brand new and keep going. You'll never lose what you have learned in the past if it was sometihng useful to begin with.

You know i totally agree with you, and mainly because of something that happened last night. I had just finally gone to sleep (about 1:30am, which is early for me). I was just starting to doze off when i heard what sounded like a banging noise in the garage. I then heard a scratching noise on my window to my room. I got up quietly, and put clothes on, and then started heading out to the living room, when suddenly i heard the screen door start being pulled open. I got infront of the door and thought to myself i was either going to RNC the **** out of this asshole, or i was going to try to scare him off. I then thought maybe he had a gun so...meh.

A few seconds later he got the screen door open and i could see his face through the little window of the door, and he started messing with the main door. At this moment i thought to myself "ok, i'm going to hit the door and make him know someone's awake, maybe that'll scare him off", before i could even finish the thought, i found myself pulling my hand out of the door, and realized i had put a HUGE hole through it, so much so that i saw after that i had actually blown the back part of the door OFF the door about 3 inches or so, probably an inch away from his face. I could see his eyes react and he had a look like "omg i'm being shot at!", and i won't lie, it sounded like a gun shot when i hit that door.

When i regained my composure, i realized i was in a semi karate stance, and i had thrown the punch almost exactly as i would have in training before, except through the door lol. Anyways after that we called the cops, he was long gone though but ya.

Anyways point is, i wasn't thinking about what punch to throw, how to stand where to put my hand/feet/etc, my body just reacted as it knew how.

Since posting this thread before, i have pretty much just been boxing on boxing days and kick boxing on MMA days, and i've been doing much better as a result, focusing more on the actual BOXING aspect of boxing, rather than "ok i throw this punch then, and this other punch at this time" just working on the foot work and actual concepts of boxing and it's been paying off :) Still have a LONG way to go, but i'm happy to finally see my body reacting the way my mind does :D

[Giga Oni]

sorry i haven't been around to respond, i see the thread had a little argument going heh.

Giga Oni: thanks for the response sir, quite informative, a few questions for you now.

1. so you use that fist, so that means you don't completely rotate your hand over when throwing punches? You prefer the vertical fist as opposed to the horizontal fist if you were to completely rotate your hand? Does this affect your range in any way?

2. When you say elbow pointing out, you mean to say as if i were to cover up one of my sides of my head, my point of my elbow would be facing the same direction as my nose?

3. Have you had ANY sort of success using any sort of karate blocks in a boxing environment? I personally haven't, the closest i've come is using an "inside" block as a parry and only if i'm able to cut an angle quick enough or back away to avoid the next punch, but i can't seem to use them like we're "trained" to in this environment lol.

well lets see

1 no i throw horizontal punches. The image was just to show how i close my fist when training with mma gloves or barekuckle. I preffer horizontal punches cos its easier to use the shoulder to cover your chin and i feel i can deliver more impact this way
2 thats right.Covering the side of your head, at least thats how i do it,but if u fell more confortable another way go for it
3 sometimes.i find it quite easy to use traditional blocks against hooks as long as you throw a counter punch almost at the same time, sometimes i use the inside block too, but i only block as a setup for a counter, i go mostly with slipping bobbing and weaving.

By the way, it took me about 2 years of boxing to sucessfully and my karate experience in it, i spend lots of time just boxing the conventional way before i tried these things.

[shotokanbjj]

well lets see

1 no i throw horizontal punches. The image was just to show how i close my fist when training with mma gloves or barekuckle. I preffer horizontal punches cos its easier to use the shoulder to cover your chin and i feel i can deliver more impact this way
2 thats right.Covering the side of your head, at least thats how i do it,but if u fell more confortable another way go for it
3 sometimes.i find it quite easy to use traditional blocks against hooks as long as you throw a counter punch almost at the same time, sometimes i use the inside block too, but i only block as a setup for a counter, i go mostly with slipping bobbing and weaving.

By the way, it took me about 2 years of boxing to sucessfully and my karate experience in it, i spend lots of time just boxing the conventional way before i tried these things.

1. k i figured, just wanted to double check :)

2. i'll give it a shot, it makes sense and seems like it'd be effective, can't hurt to try :D

3. ya i realize that's been part of the problem when i do go for that, focus too much on the block and not enough on the counter, i can't just block the punch and then wait 2 seconds to throw one of my own, has to be almost simultaneous.

Yup that's what i'm going to try to do, just focus on the boxing until i'm actually comfortable with it, and can actually slip and roll more successfully, then work on trying to incorporate some of the other stuff in there :D

[blue-dragon]

1. Forget all about karate and learn how to be a boxer.
2. Add any part of karate that mixes well for you with a boxers style.
3. Practice and perfect the mix.
4. Practice alot more.
5. You should be good by now.

This isn't very advanced but oh well.