Yes, and I used to believe my kung fu helped me more than it really did.
Ya it's been tough meshing these together, the only advantage is that i didn't have to learn how to rotate my hips at all when i punch since i definitely have that down pretty solid already, and i'm pretty tough to hit as a result of the karate foot work (at least as far as getting away).
Practice boxing and forget trying to mesh the **** together. The real problem? 1 day a week of boxing is not going to override 9 years of Karate, especially when you continue to train Karate diligently.
Also, lose the whole karate vs. boxing attitude (no not the negative) and just train.
So i just typed up a huge well worded response covering everything you just said, and my computer decided to freeze and then "refresh" itself -_- It's 2:30am and i'm not going to retype it lol. Anyways those are all solid points, part of why i think i can do it a bit better than some is because i'm a south paw, and the people i spar with are mostly used to orthodox, so they don't seem to be able to handle that level of speed coming off the RIGHT hand as opposed to the left.
Originally Posted by Permalost
Ya i'm starting to see the value in "turtling" (the defensive shoulder) alot more, it definitely has been proving useful! Been working on tucking the chin more as well. As for it working against me you're right, it proves to be difficult to hit them with that sort of offense when their chin is down and they're using their shoulders. Aside from the "trapping" the only time i've actually landed a back fist that had any sort of damage attached to it was when i feinted a low left hand (i'm south paw like i said) after getting them to cover up against it, and i was able to make them cover up their ribs a bit more, i was able to smack them pretty solid, though again the gloves made the damage significantly less than it would have been otherwise.
By "dracula" style are you referring to covering my face up with my forearm and "bicep" as the fist retracts? Just want to be clear on that.
Well i'm at an MMA gym so while we are training boxing, people tend to have a bit more unorthodox versions of it. Most of the people there are by no means "pure" boxers, it's just that my coaches are really fucking good at it lol.
I think you're thinking of a regular elbow cover, with the hand next to the same side ear to create a triangle. Well, if your arm's in a horizontal position across the centerline, you can kinda do that with the tricep side as a deflecting surface, and the point of the elbow as a blocking surface. Imagine Count Dracula covering his face with his cape- that's what the position looks like. Its something that you can throw up to protect yourself if your arm is across the centerline and it would take too long to bring your arm all the way across to defend. There's an amount of body english using the shoulder and head, as well as the torso. You might find your arm across the centerline in the case of a backfist, or more likely in the case that you threw an overly wide hook that misses.
Originally Posted by shotokanbjj
Here's Marc Denny in a Dracula position:
Yes that's what i was thinking of, though the pic you posted is more or less the same thing (albeit with the other hand in a slightly different spot) that i was thinking you meant :)
Originally Posted by Permalost
Ya that position seems like it'd be good like you said for bigger hooks and maybe even a back fist in order to help cover up faster (no one wants to punch an elbow lol).
We're doing MMA fighting tonight, w/e sparring i do get to do, i'm going to work on some of these points and a few other things i've been trying to put together myself as well :)
As we get older and have more of a skill base. (And leave our comfort zone less) we forget how hard it is to learn new things.
You will get worse before you get better.
Put real commitment into doing what you are told. Eventually it clicks
And realise that just because you are not getting it does not mean there is something wrong. You are just not there yet.
Last edited by gregaquaman; 2/08/2012 7:40pm at .
Some things I really don't get. What's the difference between a boxing punch and a karate punch? They're the same exact thing, which is why boxing and karate are pretty much a classic American MA combo (hello Joe Lewis): there's very little conflict of technique, boxing just has a bunch of stuff Karate doesn't have (and vice versa). I'm sure the strategies/concepts are very different, but there shouldn't be much "I learned to punch like this and now they want me to punch like that" to trip you up.
Gyaku tsuki IS a right straight. There is literally no difference except that some Karate stylists may hold their hands low and their stance/posture differently which gives the punch a different look at the start. It is the same dang punch though, using the same kinetic linking chain. Similarly, kizami tsuki IS a jab. Now, hook and uppercut also exist in Karate, but I understand few" traditional" karate dojos ever practice them (or practice them well), so fine, if you want to consider those boxing punches, fair enough.
Secondly, Karate footwork is not straight back. I'm not trying to be rude, but that's you, not Karate (we all have shortcomings, myself very included). Shotokan is full of angles from white belt on; ippon kumite is all about drilling 45 degree movement + parry + counter. Even pointsparring, as much as I think pointsparring is a shitty way to train, does not teach straight back movement. That gives your opponent the entire ring to operate (and yourself penalties for running out of bounds). If you ever happen to watch high level sport krotty, after they score their one attack, the fighters angle or pivot off immediately, because one doesn't want to trade hits and leave it in the judges hands to say who hit whom first.
Anywho, now that that's off my chest... Here's a few things off the top of my head I would think could be taken from Karate and applied to any martial art/combat sport:
1. The mentality of avoiding damage instead of brawling and then suddenly launching into an attack at the right moment of opportunity. Follow up and swarm if it lands flush, escape and reset if it doesn't.
2. A heightened sense of timing, distance, and reading tells for the purposes of countering.
3. Explosive distance closing.
4. Feints, drawing the opponent into doing things that you want them to do.
Karate is not a collection of ridgehands and backfists any more than adding some throws to a martial art means you've combined it with Judo.
Regardless, I support the "Just learn boxing when you're in boxing class" train of thought. You're only there one day a week, make the most of it.
Last edited by maofas; 2/11/2012 2:55pm at .
It's funny because this is exactly what I have encountered and watched. There are hundreds of threads with Karate <insert any style> people flipping out because boxing coaches tell them they are doing it wrong.
Originally Posted by maofas
I have not seen any of those threads, but I can think of 4 likely reasons for why they wound up like that, but this isn't supposed to be about good/bad karate, but making the transition to boxing. I think Mikey (does he still post here?) once said something pretty insightful about how it doesn't matter what you've done previously, boxing is it's own thing and knowing how to box is different than knowing how to punch, and you're always going to get owned in boxing until you learn how to actually box.
You've been in a couple of those threads. Dude who said bad/good karate?
Originally Posted by maofas
No one told him to quit karate, that it was bad, or it was good. He is being told to stop trying to do what you just said.
Do I need to spell it out?
Yes, kind of like what I and others just said. Y
I think Mikey (does he still post here?) once said something pretty insightful about how it doesn't matter what you've done previously, boxing is it's own thing and knowing how to box is different than knowing how to punch, and you're always going to get owned in boxing until you learn how to actually box.
Last edited by It is Fake; 2/11/2012 4:57pm at .
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