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  1. Bruiser is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    318

    Posted On:
    2/04/2012 8:33pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Indian Clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ye olde physical culture

    I was talking to Permalost the other day about indian clubs and spoke to Diesel about gymnastic exercises, so I went through some older threads and about and decided to make a thread about old time physical culture.

    In terms of general conditioning, people are moving away from the solely aerobic or weight lifting forms of exercise and starting to do stuff like Crossfit- which is enormously popular. The thing is, the idea behind crossfit (training everything; calisthenics, weights, kettlebells running, swimming etc) isn't new. In fact, I think it's the oldest form of working out, as seen in Exhibit A.

    Exhibit A:


    So, this thread is dedicated to physical culture, as was prevalent until the last half a century.

    Physical Culture at that time consisted of weight lifting, running, swimming, dumb bell exercises, wrestling (or teh BJJ or Judo) gymnastics and breathing exercises (yes, there are western breathing exercises).

    Resources
    K.V. Iyer Collection

    K.V. Iyer was at one time the biggest name in Indian body building, and blended yoga and western physical culture, and they are interesting reads.

    Anderson's Physical Culture

    Home Gymnastics by Hoffman

    Here is one of my personal favorites:

    Lessons in Wrestling and Physical Culture by Farmer Burns

    Matt Furey's retardation aside, it's got some good stuff in it.

    Another school of thought was Georges Hebert's method of physical culture, and it has been revived in France:

    http://movnat.com/

    It's pretty interesting.

    Calisthenics and Gymnastics Resources

    http://www.goldmedalbodies.com/products/

    http://www.beastskills.com/

    http://www.sensiblebeing.com/ (as well as other dieting and Catch Wrestlinginfo. The owner, Laren Umphlett, was one of the only Americans to become a coach under Karl Gotch)

    For the Parallette:
    http://www.panyoga.com/pdf/parallett...ning_guide.pdf

    For Rings:
    http://www.ringtraining.com/


    Books I suggest you buy:


    http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Gra...8404600&sr=1-8

    http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Warrior-.../dp/0938045555

    http://www.amazon.com/Holds-Barred-F...8404426&sr=1-9


    It may also be worth to check out Crossfit

    Indian Clubs

    http://motionrx.com/

    and some routines:

    http://www.ejmas.com/pt//ptart_dick_0101.htm

    http://mymadmethods.com/workout-data...-club-workouts

    Dumb bells

    Dumb Bells were immensely popular, and people like Eugen Sandow swore by them. The funny thing is, they never really used anything heavier than 20 lbs. It's something to keep in mind, I think.

    Dumb bells are available at any sporting goods or department store, and the exercises are well known (if the aren't click here Though, Farmer Burns did almost prescribe exercise with them in an aerobic sense and that's something you may want to look into.


    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, this thread isn't meant to serve as a blue print for your workout. What I'm hoping you do is get new ideas here, because exercise isn't a science, it's an art- an art tailor made for the individual and their needs).

    Another thing to keep in mind is to not totally disregard barbell training. It is very effective and should be practiced. It provides massive gains in strength and IMHO should be coupled with the older methods.

    I hope it is helpful!

    -Bruiser.
    Last edited by Bruiser; 2/04/2012 9:16pm at . Reason: Added some more resources...
  2. mrh80 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    133

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 2:47am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
    I was talking to Permalost the other day about indian clubs and spoke to Diesel about gymnastic exercises, so I went through some older threads and about and decided to make a thread about old time physical culture.

    In terms of general conditioning, people are moving away from the solely aerobic or weight lifting forms of exercise and starting to do stuff like Crossfit- which is enormously popular. The thing is, the idea behind crossfit (training everything; calisthenics, weights, kettlebells running, swimming etc) isn't new. In fact, I think it's the oldest form of working out, as seen in Exhibit A.

    Exhibit A:


    So, this thread is dedicated to physical culture, as was prevalent until the last half a century.

    Physical Culture at that time consisted of weight lifting, running, swimming, dumb bell exercises, wrestling (or teh BJJ or Judo) gymnastics and breathing exercises (yes, there are western breathing exercises).

    Resources
    K.V. Iyer Collection

    K.V. Iyer was at one time the biggest name in Indian body building, and blended yoga and western physical culture, and they are interesting reads.

    Anderson's Physical Culture

    Home Gymnastics by Hoffman

    Here is one of my personal favorites:

    Lessons in Wrestling and Physical Culture by Farmer Burns

    Matt Furey's retardation aside, it's got some good stuff in it.

    Another school of thought was Georges Hebert's method of physical culture, and it has been revived in France:

    http://movnat.com/

    It's pretty interesting.

    Calisthenics and Gymnastics Resources

    http://www.goldmedalbodies.com/products/

    http://www.beastskills.com/

    http://www.sensiblebeing.com/ (as well as other dieting and Catch Wrestlinginfo. The owner, Laren Umphlett, was one of the only Americans to become a coach under Karl Gotch)

    For the Parallette:
    http://www.panyoga.com/pdf/parallett...ning_guide.pdf

    For Rings:
    http://www.ringtraining.com/


    Books I suggest you buy:


    http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Gra...8404600&sr=1-8

    http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Warrior-.../dp/0938045555

    http://www.amazon.com/Holds-Barred-F...8404426&sr=1-9


    It may also be worth to check out Crossfit

    Indian Clubs

    http://motionrx.com/

    and some routines:

    http://www.ejmas.com/pt//ptart_dick_0101.htm

    http://mymadmethods.com/workout-data...-club-workouts

    Dumb bells

    Dumb Bells were immensely popular, and people like Eugen Sandow swore by them. The funny thing is, they never really used anything heavier than 20 lbs. It's something to keep in mind, I think.

    Dumb bells are available at any sporting goods or department store, and the exercises are well known (if the aren't click here Though, Farmer Burns did almost prescribe exercise with them in an aerobic sense and that's something you may want to look into.


    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, this thread isn't meant to serve as a blue print for your workout. What I'm hoping you do is get new ideas here, because exercise isn't a science, it's an art- an art tailor made for the individual and their needs).

    Another thing to keep in mind is to not totally disregard barbell training. It is very effective and should be practiced. It provides massive gains in strength and IMHO should be coupled with the older methods.

    I hope it is helpful!

    -Bruiser.
    There is certainly a lot to be learned from reading those books and the various other free strongman books online. The thing about not using dumbbells over 20lbs is not true, for instance the infamous "inch dumbbell".

    Also the gymnastics bodies forum is probably the most comprehensive site on gymnastics based training info I have found. Also the convict conditioning book is also worth a read for the ideas on progressive calisthenics.

    Do not really like crossfit for various reasons.

    Interesting you have started this topic as I am in the process of working the bent press pretty hard as an experiment. A lift that has pretty much died out since the old strongman times.
  3. Bruiser is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    318

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 3:18am


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Indian Clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    The thing about not using dumbbells over 20lbs is not true, for instance the infamous "inch dumbbell".
    Maybe for body builders but the wrestlers at the time ( Farmer Burns for one) did not, and wrestlers were who I was referencing. Most of the posters here are MAist (grapplers in particular) so advice from grapplers to grapplers is the most appropriate I think.

    Also the gymnastics bodies forum is probably the most comprehensive site on gymnastics based training info I have found. Also the convict conditioning book is also worth a read for the ideas on progressive calisthenics.
    I heard about that book.

    Interesting you have started this topic as I am in the process of working the bent press pretty hard as an experiment. A lift that has pretty much died out since the old strongman times.
    Just looked that up. It is so going in my workout.


    Also for the love of god, edit the op from your post bro. We don't need to scroll bomb everyone, LOL.
  4. unheatedgarage is offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    7

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 3:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA NOOB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was always partial to this book:

    http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competit...bum/index.html

    Indian clubs and kettlebells always sounded like a good workout too.

    Cool thread, man. Very cool.
  5. mrh80 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    133

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 4:02am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
    Maybe for body builders but the wrestlers at the time ( Farmer Burns for one) did not, and wrestlers were who I was referencing. Most of the posters here are MAist (grapplers in particular) so advice from grapplers to grapplers is the most appropriate I think.
    A lot of the old school wrestlers used dumb bells over 20lbs, although they definately did a lot of bodyweight exercises. When I have some more time I will look up some specific examples.

    Have fun with the bent press but be careful it is a pretty technical lift.
  6. ChenPengFi is offline
    ChenPengFi's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Hawai'i
    Posts
    3,314

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 11:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You may find this useful and relevant:
    Pioneers of Modern Physical Training
    By Fred Eugene Leonard
  7. Bruiser is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    318

    Posted On:
    2/05/2012 1:23pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Indian Clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    A lot of the old school wrestlers used dumb bells over 20lbs, although they definately did a lot of bodyweight exercises. When I have some more time I will look up some specific examples.

    Have fun with the bent press but be careful it is a pretty technical lift.
    Okay. I'd like to see them, tbh.

    They were harder then I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Nice find, Chen. Gonna check it out now.
  8. mrh80 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    133

    Posted On:
    2/06/2012 1:21am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok after a quick google search wrestlers/strongmen Arthur Saxon (http://www.thefitnessreview.net/wp-c.../07/Saxon2.jpg) and Georg Hackenschmidt both trained with heavy dumb bells amoung other things.

    The "Henry Higgins Strength and Muscle Course" goes into a lot of detail with heavy dumb bell training. Here is an interesting review: http://sports.dir.groups.yahoo.com/g...g/message/3556 and http://www.superstrengthtraining.com/henry_higgins.html

    The strongmen got strong by lifting all sorts of heavy things including dumb bells.
  9. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    San Diego
    Posts
    12,683

    Posted On:
    2/06/2012 1:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I look at that old gymnasium, I see an awesome liability nightmare. A lot of people assume that the older methods were tossed out in favor of newer ones because they were more useful as exercises, but I think its a product of the liability-minded gym movement. For example, having a big tae-bo style class of people swinging Indian clubs could be dangerous. Or, having people climbing up to high ceilings. They're both great exercises, though, as long as you build the coordination and train properly.

    I've been training for a wilderness class since I'm a little doughier than I'd like to be for long backpacking trips, so part of my fitness planning is taking some of ye old exercise stuff to the local park. I've got a set of wooden clubs and a gada with 10lbs loaded at the end. Normally I use my breaks to go for a walk or do some skateboarding, but I think I need to step it up a bit.
  10. Bruiser is offline

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    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    318

    Posted On:
    2/06/2012 2:11pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Indian Clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get that, Perma... nowadays crossfit gyms look similar (sans boxing/wrestling/fencing regrettably).

    I'm into wilderness/hiking stuff also. I found a cool article for strength training for those typse of things... I'll send it to you when I find it.
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