Article: You don’t need to win in sparring by Damien Trainor

**Sovvolf** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 8:11am

Originally Posted by Trlababalan

Those are the same guys who will hit you after you stopped and hold two more seconds after you tapped.

These are pretty much the bullies of the gym, need to satisfy their ego's by picking on the new guys or weaker fighters. Often using the flawed justification that they are "Just toughening them up" when in reality it isn't. It just drains the confidence out of them and will probably make them feel like they aren't progressing and could end up with them leaving the gym for it. These people can end up doing more harm than good to a gym and I've seen places where people have been told to leave the gym for it.

Also pisses off the veterans of the gym or the better fighters who come to the gym to train and practice while all the bully seems to be going to the place for is a fight.

Fighting to win at sparring is a pointless way to go about it. Use that sparring time well and learn from it. I get that you can get a buzz or an ego boost when you do well at sparring, last Saturday I had my first Karate lesson and I ended up sparring... I did pretty well and felt great about it afterwords (not a fellow that usually dominates in sparring). However my goal during sparring wasn't to dominate the fight but to work out what techniques that I learned from TKD would work in this style while also trying to use the blocks and counters I'd learned that day.

Also used that time to get a feel for what might be a head, how do karate fighters of this style move, attack or react. Gauging the style and my opponents. It's a style I'm currently unfamiliar with and thus I used my time in sparring to do as mention above, because, if all goes wrong... It's just a sparring match, there is no win or lose. So used that time where it is safe to lose to work this out. Cause if you don't... You may have to try and work it out in the right where it does matter if you lose...

Also of note, if you spar to win, you're going to consistently rely on your tried and tested methods while neglecting what you are weak at. Which runs the risk of over specialisation which is more than likely going to land you in big trouble when you end up facing a fellow that knows how the counter what ever it is you are doing and you're stuck with nothing else to work with. Which means you'll have to experiment in the ring... Which as stated above... if all goes wrong... That loss does matter.

**NeilG** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 9:14am

Originally Posted by BKR

True enought, but different people do have different levels depending on experience, condition, etc.

The first few times I went to BJJ practice, I had the same problem. My 50% was like most of their 80-100%. Only a douche won't adjust, though.

Well even in judo - I typically put my 5 or 10% against the newbies who are giving 80% when asked for 50% - is that too much math?

**SpinKiK** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 10:36am

I was always taught to match my opponents intensity level. If he's going 60% that what I'll do, if I go up to 80% and he's not meeting that, then I'll apologize and go back down to 60. Losing sparring partners is a great way to stymie your training.

This may just be semantics, but I always considered pure sparring to be the closest thing to actual fighting, where you are only concerned with defending yourself and defeating your opponent. What others are describing when they say they'll use that time to work on double leg takedowns, etc.. to me sounds more like drilling than sparring.

**Sovvolf** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 10:43am

Originally Posted by SpinKiK

I was always taught to match my opponents intensity level. If he's going 60% that what I'll do, if I go up to 80% and he's not meeting that, then I'll apologize and go back down to 60. Losing sparring partners is a great way to stymie your training.

That's pretty much the way I was taught to go about it. Along with going easy on the new kid :)

Originally Posted by SpinKiK

This may just be semantics, but I always considered pure sparring to be the closest thing to actual fighting, where you are only concerned with defending yourself and defeating your opponent. What others are describing when they say they'll use that time to work on double leg takedowns, etc.. to me sounds more like drilling than sparring.

It's more like trying to use or work on a technique in a situation that is the closest thing to an actual fight. When drilling, you don't have any real resistance, your opponent is there to let you do the drill and vice versa. With sparring, your partner isn't going to let you, you've not discussed with him that you'll be launching a double leg take down or using these techniques and he'll be working on you with his own game plan.

It's using that time you've got that is, as you've said, close to a real fight, to work on techniques on getting them sharp while still having to deal with the multiple almost unpredictable factors of a fight with the benefit of not having a loss on your record if it doesn't pan out.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 11:53am

Intensity and "winning" are not the same. I can go 90% and still not be in the "winning" mindset.

I'll make a video example for you people.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 12:04pm

Originally Posted by SpinKiK

I was always taught to match my opponents intensity level. If he's going 60% that what I'll do, if I go up to 80% and he's not meeting that, then I'll apologize and go back down to 60. Losing sparring partners is a great way to stymie your training.

This may just be semantics, but I always considered pure sparring to be the closest thing to actual fighting, where you are only concerned with defending yourself and defeating your opponent. What others are describing when they say they'll use that time to work on double leg takedowns, etc.. to me sounds more like drilling than sparring.

I guess it is semantics because I am not concerned with winning or defeating anyone in sparring. I'm concerned with what works and what does not. If the 3 or 4 techniques you are working that week or month are succeeding consistently and you cal that winning that's semantics. As in the other thread, when you say "I spar like it is a real altercation" you have the wrong mindset IMO. Oh and I drill techniques while I am sparring and I drill them on their own. Focus Mitt combinations are drills. Trying to get those techniques to work in sparring, on a regular basis, is a form of drilling under aliveness or pressure.

In that cull thread and in another thread people got mad because they feel I implied competition only. No, I think competition is best unless you are at a school that does weekly or monthly full contact sparring with ammy level rules.

Sparring is great, but for that real adrenal dump, that is NOT THE SAME as the street, competition is the best option IMO.

**CrackFox** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 12:16pm

Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr.

Intensity and "winning" are not the same. I can go 90% and still not be in the "winning" mindset.

I'll make a video example for you people.

Thanks to by judo background, I'm really bad at arm bars from mount. (Giving up the pin wouldn't be worth it in judo.)

If I was in a BJJ competition and there's no way I'd go for an armbar from mount, even if it was being gifted to me as I'd probably just lose position. If I'm rolling and I get into mount, I'm going to go for it even if I think it hasn't got a high chance of working. The intensity we're rolling has nothing to do with that decision. (Though if we're rolling light, it might change the *way* I go for that arm bar.)

**CrackFox** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 2:54pm

Drilling can have a varying amount of resistance, all the way from none to lots.

Even with resistance there are many aspects of learning to fight which you will not get from drilling. Recognising openings, and following on from failed attempts are two that come off the top of my head.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 5/14/2012 9:30pm

I have now culled this thread twice. Infractions for off topic posting from here on out.

**BKR** · Posted On: 5/16/2012 10:21am

Originally Posted by NeilG

Well even in judo - I typically put my 5 or 10% against the newbies who are giving 80% when asked for 50% - is that too much math?

Way too much. Newbies don't have any idea of what is what, you might as well be speaking latin to them. It's all part of the learning process. Way too much arithmetic for me, for sure!