Article: You don’t need to win in sparring by Damien Trainor

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 2/24/2012 8:08pm

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Good article.

"Winning" at mock combat is still mock winning, imho, so bragging about winning a sparring match is like bragging that you can land a plane because you play Microsoft Flight Simulator.

You might be able to land a plane, but you won't know until you have to. The more you train at sparring, the better your chances, right? Winning doesn't matter except when it counts.

This sounds like you haven't sparred enough, and you're just putting in rhetorical opinions.

Its not really winning or losing to begin with, most of the time, because most sparring partners are either better than you or worse than you. And of different shapes and sizes. If both of the guys did the best they can at whatever contact level, sure, but when do you ever see that? I'm either feeling like someones going easy on me and I'm trying my best, or visa versa. So its not even like doing flightsim. Which is a bad analogy to begin with because in MS flight sim you aren't fighting another person.

This other point isn't directed at WR, but at the general thread.
You know if you're better or worse than someone pretty quickly, and you adjust so that your opponent can have a meaningful sparring session. If you're winning or losing in sparring, its not really sparring. Its a fight that happened in sparring.

**alex** · Posted On: 2/24/2012 10:50pm

what? every time i spar i win. i **** those cunts up. how dare they cross hands with me, I FEED THEM THEIR UNBORN CHILDREN IN A FUCKING KNUCKLE SANDWICH OF HATE

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 2/24/2012 11:41pm

Originally Posted by Alex

what? every time i spar i win. i **** those cunts up. how dare they cross hands with me, I FEED THEM THEIR UNBORN CHILDREN IN A FUCKING KNUCKLE SANDWICH OF HATE

Are you sure they are not going easy on you, and even pretending to be foaming at the mouth and pretending they have temporary dementia after the sparring session, and also quitting the gym to simulate you showing them that after all they don't think kickboxing is really for them???

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 2/27/2012 9:23am

Originally Posted by dwkfym

This sounds like you haven't sparred enough, and you're just putting in rhetorical opinions.

Its not really winning or losing to begin with, most of the time, because most sparring partners are either better than you or worse than you. And of different shapes and sizes. If both of the guys did the best they can at whatever contact level, sure, but when do you ever see that?

I definitely said I don't view sparring as win/lose. I was arguing against that sort of mentality, but I can see why you thought otherwise. I still think you get the hypercompetitive (i.e. gamer mentality) types ruining good sparring sessions...I've encountered those people in every MA I've done sparring in.

It was my judo sensei who taught me to gauge my opponent's level of commitment and match it, especially on the ground. One day I asked him why he rolled so hard with me and he told me "because you try so much". Oh, if only that kind of advice grew on trees...

The "I'm going to win this sparring match against you" guy is the one that I punch square in the face at the first opportunity. It wouldn't matter what your sparring credentials are, I have had training enough to know when people are really trying to hurt me vs. trying improve their skills.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 2/27/2012 9:54pm

I was criticizing your analogy. I never stated you think otherwise. There is not a lot about sparring that is like flight simulators, even if you're talking about multiple participants dogfighting. Sparring sessions, if they turn into a win/lose session its not really mock combat is it? Sure, you got gloves and stuff but there is nothing 'mock' about sparring session turned fight, or a real ring fight. It only shows you haven't been in enough very competitive sparring sessions or a fights.

Also, don't downplay the competitive spirit so much. I agree with you if someone is like that all the time they are being dicks, but there is a point where someone is just being a ***** and whining about how the other guy isn't cutting him enough quarter. A sparring session is a bit of 'playing' and 'trying techniques' but a good part of it still is 'pressure testing' to varying degrees. A competitive spirit is helpful in healthy doses. Level of contact and the competitiveness of a sparring session is dynamic even within the session. You still want to know how much you've improved against someone better, and if a junior is going too hard, you have to go hard back just to show him that you're still above him. This isn't exactly win/loss mentality, but if he keeps pushing it, it will become a 'fight' and in a true sense 'win/lose' thing.

Now I understand I've been a dick to a lot of your posts, and I apologize for that but sometimes I feel you are putting in your opinion when it only has marginal value or flat out uphelpful. Though, it hasn't been detrimental and often times its funny so don't think I have malicious feelings towards you.

**EdgeWalker** · Posted On: 5/01/2012 6:39am

If sparring is a mock battle, and the point of a battle is to win, then shouldn't you try to win mock battles? When I say winning, I don't mean going 100% against each other. 50%~70% is fine. If a person can't do 50%~70% then he/she shouldn't be sparring.

I personally like to try out 'creative' techniques or combos in sparring sessions that I wouldn't dare try in a real competition. But I still try to win.

**Sovvolf** · Posted On: 5/08/2012 8:24am

I quit an MMA gym at one point cause the instructor himself had the "win the spar" attitude. Now, I've done some martial arts over about five years but it's been really on and off stuff when I've been able to get the time and money, I'd say in about five years I've done maybe 5 months of training at the very most and that's putting all the training at different styles together. When I stepped into this gym I'd have about a grand total of 3 months, wasn't really in shape and was really just trying to get into it.

So basically what I'm saying is, I was fairly inexperienced and fairly weak. This was my third lesson at the place and I found the master already to be fairly dubious. However, he put me in a spar with him and his entire goal seemed to me was to knock me out. He said "no head contact" which I agreed, later in the fight he threw a head kick which I just barely avoided and then his eyes went mental, face went red, threw me in the corner and just wailed on me, eventually his punches got through my guard and I was winded. I dropped and the guy started cheering himself on and dancing around the ring we had.

I didn't come back to the gym after that, thought the guy was a psychopath and what did I learn from that spar? That a fellow three times my size, with apparently 30 years of experience, could easily crush me in a fight? It doesn't seem like a good way to learn and all it did was crush my confidence and make me not want to train.

I've only just started back up at a place. Though it's got a better reputation and the sparring here isn't focuses on winning but on learning. They recognise that I'm new, a little experience but nothing noteworthy and they adjust for that and will help me out learning techniques during sparring. Telling me to try to be more aggressive here, go on the defensive or even showing me how to set up a good clinch and allowing me to practice it while sparring. Basically working with me and working through techniques we'd been learning that day in the drills.

This type of sparring has been far more helpful, I don't feel too tense or afraid when sparring and I was learning new techniques or ways of applying them while doing it. Which is what I feel it should be, a learning experience, you're not in an actual fight so I don't think it should be treated as such. Though I'll admit that I may not have the experience to be qualified to make such a statement but that's really worked well for me and I've learned a good few things through it.

**Chen Zen fromFA** · Posted On: 5/11/2012 11:14pm

You should always train in the manner in which you plan to fight. If your losing at sparring, then perhaps your plan wasnt very good.

I spar to win. I dont spar to hurt folks but I do spar to win. If I wanted to get hit Id just volunteer to be the kick pad

**mike321** · Posted On: 5/12/2012 12:24am

Originally Posted by Chen Zen fromFA

You should always train in the manner in which you plan to fight. If your losing at sparring, then perhaps your plan wasnt very good.

I spar to win. I dont spar to hurt folks but I do spar to win. If I wanted to get hit Id just volunteer to be the kick pad

What if you have a goal like working on a weakness? You aren't really trying to win if you don't use your most effective moves. But if you want to get better you need to work on things sometimes.

**Chen Zen fromFA** · Posted On: 5/12/2012 12:34am

Originally Posted by mike321

What if you have a goal like working on a weakness? You aren't really trying to win if you don't use your most effective moves. But if you want to get better you need to work on things sometimes.

Sure. Working on weakness is vital. However, there is much drilling and progressive resistance when learning a technique. After that, using a certain idea or technique in sparring shouldnt be an issue.

If I want t work a jab, for instance. Im going to try to keep you on the outside with footwork, feints, and kicking. This is going to keep you at the proper range for me to work my jab. All of this is after Ive learned the proper mechanics and drilled it sufficiently against a resistant partner, on the bag, with focus mitts, and against various attacks.