asking for approval for a choke i came out with

**Necroyunus** · Posted On: 9/24/2012 12:31am

Dear bullies,

Last time when I was rolling with a friend of mine I came up with a choke from turtle position, which is not one of my favorite areas to begin with.

After I saw that it worked, I got a couple of friends and asked them to defend themselves to try and see the weaknesses and details.

And when it was done I tried this choke on many occasions and got people from white, blue and purple belts.

Then I asked many friends, my instructors, they told me they have not seen this choke exactly. They've said, they have seen some similar setups where you go to crucifix, or it looks like bow and arrow choke etc. however not exactly the same.

So I just gave it my own name and made a vid about in Turkish to put on my website.

Now, don't get me wrong I am not saying this is a uber super move that you will kill your enemies etc.
Also, I'm not saying that I own the patent or anything because BJJ world is so big, it is very possible that this move was already found before.

So, here I'd like to share the vid with you and ask your opinion about it.
(If you had seen it anywhere before, please give me the link also)

http://youtu.be/38F6J90Sv7w

It works for me, even if I can't get it, I end up in a good position because your opponent has to turn in order to defend himself.

The vid is Turkish, but I believe it is visual enough to see what's going on. If not, please ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

p.s. came "UP" with...sorry...

**faixabranca** · Posted On: 9/24/2012 11:56am

I have not seen that before. It looks sort of like a Judo counter to turtle.

**captainbirdseye** · Posted On: 9/24/2012 4:48pm

I got taught a very similar looking choke quite recently, I don't know what it's called though so can't link a video. Will ask my instructor when I see him, was really effective.

**DarkPhoenix** · Posted On: 9/27/2012 7:22am

I will have to try that next judo class.

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 9/27/2012 7:36am

Have you worked out the counter yet?

I will also try out the Y-choke(?) next time i'm on the mats

**Necroyunus** · Posted On: 9/27/2012 8:16pm

I have been thinking on it, I've also asked my friends to defend it like in a drilling fashion, so I could see the problems with it.

I believe, for "fast moves" like this (by fast move, I mean the ones that you go for a quick result without having the superior positional control) it is more important to avoid it from beginning than trying to counter it after your opponents gets the move.

So, for this move, the biggest problems you may have is when your opponents starts do defend his neck from the beginning (But a lot of times they don't because they don't think you'll get anything with single hand, or you're quick enough to catch something first) or they just try to get out of turtle as soon as possible, especially by trying to posture up.

Sometimes they really put a big effort to turn against you, but you end up with a free back position or sidemount.

As you see, the problems occur when people try to defend it from the beginning somehow.

**Necroyunus** · Posted On: 10/02/2012 12:29pm

Have you tried the move?

How did it go? Would love to hear the feedback, positive or negative.

Thanks

**bigato** · Posted On: 10/05/2012 8:27pm

Hi. I tried it today, and I would say that if you got such a fine grab on the collar, you would be much better going for one of the great loop chokes, like the nice example on this video:

In your choke, if the guy you are choking makes you sit (easy to do, try it), it's quite easy to avoid the choke. If you don't understand what I mean, tell me and I will record a video.

**Necroyunus** · Posted On: 10/05/2012 9:42pm

Originally Posted by bigato

Hi. I tried it today, and I would say that if you got such a fine grab on the collar, you would be much better going for one of the great loop chokes, like the nice example on this video:

In your choke, if the guy you are choking makes you sit (easy to do, try it), it's quite easy to avoid the choke. If you don't understand what I mean, tell me and I will record a video.

Bigato, first of all thank you for your feedback

Normally, even when I'm teaching classes and I'm showing the technique myself, I avoid the terms like "better", because BJJ is such a flexible sport that everybody can have their own ways of doing things or again people might find different things useful for themselves.

For me, I like positional advantage a lot in my game. I like the moves that even if somehow I fail, I still end up in a "not that bad" situation.

That's why I don't very often go for loop chokes, because if i somehow miss it I end up in a bad situation. But then again, maybe that's because I'm not fast or skilled enough, better guys may do it better than me and actually they DO it better than me on many occasions because I tapped to those moves before many times.

Now for the problem you've mentioned, I'd like to ask you first, have you noticed that I don't go for a standard grip and instead I go for a reverse grip?
This reverse grip makes a very good lock later(because now your elbow can put pressure on his head downwards) and once you're at the side you mostly end up getting the choke or getting a good position(if you can't hold the arm well and the opponent is just good at turning over)

does it make sense? did i understand what you said?

**bigato** · Posted On: 10/06/2012 5:53am

hmmm, I hadn't really noticed the reverse grip. I'll try it again next week. But it still seems like the knee put there is your weakness. You tell about positional dominance, but when you sprawl over the guy, if you put your knee there, you are in fact loosing position. The loop choke is very effective if you have a good grip, even against opponents twice your size. About your position, if the guy doesn't try to turn over and walk to your side instead, how do you keep your hold?