UFC 143: Diaz vs Condit - Feb. 4, 2012

[CNagy]

I agree with Sirc that this fight will be in a landmark in fighters trying to win via judge's decision. Before Carlos Condit, no fighter ever went out with the intention of winning by decision instead of knock out or submission. Except for Jon Fitch, Tim Sylvia, GSP, Ben Askren, Josh Koscheck, Michael Bisping, Charles Sonnen, Pat Miletech, Gray Maynard, Clay Guida, and Anderson Silva (sometimes).

(Above list is demonstrative, not exhaustive.)

Dude, Clay Guida goes out there and fights until they make him stop fighting. Then he waits for them to let him fight again. I could buy that he doesn't think about finishing, though; a submission or a knockout just happens while he is fighting.

[Vince Tortelli]

CNagy:
I think Guida fights in a way that plays to his strengths (crazed mountain man cardio, grappling) whereas if he was a r34l m4n, he would march forward with his chin held high and his right arm whirling like a windmill.

On to Nick as coach/trainer:
So Nick's not going to handle the gym's finances. He's not going to do appearances and media to promote the gym. It's very likely he can't even be counted on to show up and teach on regularly. So...why in the name of Cthulhu, Kathulos, and Galactus should the people who will actually be handling the money, teaching the classes, and doing the requisite P.R. pay him anything?

I do agree with you that hardcore fighter/BJJ types will put up with a lot of...shall we say, colorful idiosyncracies from a talented teacher. But you cannot run a gym that operates in the black with just the hardcore customer base. I don't care whether it's Greg Jackson's, Xtreme Couture, American Top Team...what's keeping the lights turned on isn't Jon Jones, Mike Pyle, and Thiago Alves, it's Joe Smuckatelli, Suzie Soccer Mom, and their kids, Lil' Timmy and Lil' Christy.

If a gym is going to make money, it has to cater to the average person on some level. And the average person isn't going to put up with a dope smoking, profanity spewing, fist fighting in the parking lot head trainer. They'll take their dollars elsewhere.

Seriously, look at the great coaches. Your Pat Miletechs, Randy Coutures, Renzo Gracies, Freddie Roaches, and Yamashitas. What do they all have in common? More maturity than the ordinary three year old! A personal virtue that so far seems to elude Nick Diaz.

[Gabetuno]

Dude, Clay Guida goes out there and fights until they make him stop fighting. Then he waits for them to let him fight again. I could buy that he doesn't think about finishing, though; a submission or a knockout just happens while he is fighting.

Exactly. There is a difference between not finishing your opponent and not intending to finish your opponent. One is due to skill discrepancy, bad luck, them being tough as ****, or just not having the energy, the other isn't. You can't accuse Clay Guida of not doing everything he can to destroy all that is the human being in front of him, whether he gets the KO, submission, or just the decision.

[Vince Tortelli]

As for Sirc:
So...you think that the firestorm of media attention Diaz-Condit is drawing will lead to an over haul of the rules.

Just like the firestorm of media attention after Machida-Shogun 1 and other high profile fights led to an over haul of how judges score fights, and the adoption of a yellow card system...er, the adoption of a half point style scoring system...uh, I mean, a complete over haul of the qualifcations required to be a judge...oh wait, none of that happened. A bunch of people ran on and on at the mouth and everything stayed basically the same.

I am going to bestow upon a helpful phrase that has often come to my aid in dark times, which is as follows:
"When all is said and done, a lot more gets said than done."
You're welcome, and God bless.

[Gabetuno]

CNagy:
I think Guida fights in a way that plays to his strengths (crazed mountain man cardio, grappling) whereas if he was a r34l m4n, he would march forward with his chin held high and his right arm whirling like a windmill.

You're an idiot who apparently doesn't even understand the argument he's opposing.

On to Nick as coach/trainer:
So Nick's not going to handle the gym's finances. He's not going to do appearances and media to promote the gym.

You don't get to promote your gym at UFC press conferences. Just yourself and the UFC.

It's very likely he can't even be counted on to show up and teach on regularly. So...why in the name of Cthulhu, Kathulos, and Galactus should the people who will actually be handling the money, teaching the classes, and doing the requisite P.R. pay him anything?

Logical misstep. Doing promotion for the UFC doesn't have to do with your gym. If you win the fight, you shout "Cesar Gracie" and then everyone looks you up because you're a badass. From what I understand, his work ethic in and out of the gym is astounding. This is about Diaz rubbing you the wrong way, nothing else. Don't drag a fighter's work ethic into question when the dude can do 5 rounds standing on his head.

I do agree with you that hardcore fighter/BJJ types will put up with a lot of...shall we say, colorful idiosyncracies from a talented teacher. But you cannot run a gym that operates in the black with just the hardcore customer base.

Wanna bet?

I don't care whether it's Greg Jackson's, Xtreme Couture, American Top Team...what's keeping the lights turned on isn't Jon Jones, Mike Pyle, and Thiago Alves, it's Joe Smuckatelli, Suzie Soccer Mom, and their kids, Lil' Timmy and Lil' Christy.

You're retarded.

If a gym is going to make money, it has to cater to the average person on some level. And the average person isn't going to put up with a dope smoking, profanity spewing, fist fighting in the parking lot head trainer. They'll take their dollars elsewhere.

Nothing about the Cesar Gracie camp indicates they want to be anything like Xtreme Couture.

Seriously, look at the great coaches. Your Pat Miletechs, Randy Coutures, Renzo Gracies, Freddie Roaches, and Yamashitas. What do they all have in common? More maturity than the ordinary three year old! A personal virtue that so far seems to elude Nick Diaz.

You went from "he wants to brawl" to "he likes to swear and smoke weed" to "he must have no work ethic" to "he'll never make money at a gym."

You are allowed to hate his guts for whatever reason you like, but your grasp of facts and life seems to be the things that eludes you.

[CNagy]

So...you think that the firestorm of media attention Diaz-Condit is drawing will lead to an over haul of the rules.

To be fair, Keith Kizer is soliciting suggestions from the fans about rules changes, the best of which will be discussed later this year.

http://www.fightersonlymag.com/conte...t-rule-changes

[Gabetuno]

There is no rule change I can think of that will help this, or even should probably be instituted. Aside from a removal of the score card and round limits.

Though I would like to see yellow cards incorporated in the states.

[Neo Sigma]

Well, this little nugget just popped up-

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/NSA...Positive-40157

Coupled with what CNagy was saying a bit earlier, I think we have our answer as far as the rematch goes. I really don't understand how a habitual weed smoker can NOT know the time in which you'll come up positive.

[Vince Tortelli]

I've never denied that Nick is talented and works hard in the gym. But there's a difference in being a good fighter and being a good coach. Look at Mike Tyson. Awesome fighter, but would you pay him to teach you to box?

If you're independently wealthy or have a profitable second job (main Eventing in the UFC, for instance) you can run your gym however you want. But if it's your main source of income you better be ready to run programs for kids, out of shape people, women wanting to learn self defense, guys who walk in after viewing one episode of the Ultimate Fighter, etc. BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF THEM THAN THERE ARE PRO FIGHTERS. And I think Cesar Gracie would love to have a bank account like Randy Couture. So would every other guy running a fight gym.

Do you have even the foggiest idea what it takes to run a profitable gym?

[CNagy]

Do you have even the foggiest idea what it takes to run a profitable gym?

A lot of nearby elementary schools and kid's classes.