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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2012 11:44pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Whoa wait a minute. Where as you probably have a sound argument, stating SAMBO doesn't have belts is erroneous. I think you may want to clarify your statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    Lion Knight, Uncle Skippy:

    To clarify: No, SAMBO did not have a recognized belt ranking system.

    At one time, *one* organization with *some* authority over SAMBO *only* in the United States tried to institute a belt ranking system and self-issued their newly minted rank to many SAMBO competitors and coaches. Their actions went over like a lead balloon at the international level. Consequently and due to other factors, that organization no longer has any real authority over SAMBO.

    For whatever reason, *some* gyms in the U.S. which *used to* be under that old organization continue to use that belt system or have instituted their own. Why do they do that? Who the **** knows. Maybe those gyms like collecting colorful things.

    SAMBO only has two recognized belt colors: red and blue. Which one to wear is matched to the red or blue kurtka a competitor would wear in a sanctioned match. Their opponent would wear the opposing color.

    The only recognized ranking system for SAMBO is based on the old Unified Sports Classification System of the former Soviet Union. It is as follows:


    • Third-Class Junior Sportsman
    • Second-Class Sportsman
    • First-Class Sportsman
    • Candidate for Master of Sport
    • Master of Sport
    • Merited Master of Sport



    Master of Sport (MoS) would equate to a nationally ranked champion. Candidate for MoS would be the same at the regional level.

    There is also an Honored MoS and a Distinguished MoS rank, too. But, due to 'merited', 'distinguished', and 'honored' in nearly all contexts is the same word in Russian, the rank causes confusion outside of Russia. However, they are honorary titles. In the context of the ranking system, a different word is actually used. These ranks can be awarded to anyone making a substantial contribution to whichever sport in which it is awarded and is not limited in its award solely to the sport's practitioners.

    This.

    For the record. Yes I have a 3 degree blackbelt in SAMBO. What SSF said is true for the most part; but nobody in my group was given rank. I've done my fucking hardest to make my rank mean something. I've done my hardest to make sure my guys know their rank means something. Anybody that rolls with my guys, or fights my guys knows I don't give this stuff away. SSF you can kiss my ass.
  2. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 1:45am


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Belt confusion aside SSF do you have anything to back up your claims with? Perhaps SamboSteve can weigh in on this since you are working with him in some capacity? Who are you btw?
  3. lionknight is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 2:03am


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    Lion Knight, Uncle Skippy:

    To clarify: No, SAMBO did not have a recognized belt ranking system.

    At one time, *one* organization with *some* authority over SAMBO *only* in the United States tried to institute a belt ranking system and self-issued their newly minted rank to many SAMBO competitors and coaches. Their actions went over like a lead balloon at the international level. Consequently and due to other factors, that organization no longer has any real authority over SAMBO.

    For whatever reason, *some* gyms in the U.S. which *used to* be under that old organization continue to use that belt system or have instituted their own. Why do they do that? Who the **** knows. Maybe those gyms like collecting colorful things.

    SAMBO only has two recognized belt colors: red and blue. Which one to wear is matched to the red or blue kurtka a competitor would wear in a sanctioned match. Their opponent would wear the opposing color.

    The only recognized ranking system for SAMBO is based on the old Unified Sports Classification System of the former Soviet Union. It is as follows:

    • Third-Class Junior Sportsman
    • Second-Class Sportsman
    • First-Class Sportsman
    • Candidate for Master of Sport
    • Master of Sport
    • Merited Master of Sport

    Master of Sport (MoS) would equate to a nationally ranked champion. Candidate for MoS would be the same at the regional level.

    There is also an Honored MoS and a Distinguished MoS rank, too. But, due to 'merited', 'distinguished', and 'honored' in nearly all contexts is the same word in Russian, the rank causes confusion outside of Russia. However, they are honorary titles. In the context of the ranking system, a different word is actually used. These ranks can be awarded to anyone making a substantial contribution to whichever sport in which it is awarded and is not limited in its award solely to the sport's practitioners.
    Yes I realize this; I also realize my previous answer was unclear, thanks for laying it out.
  4. King Sleepless is offline
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    I am a living legend!

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 3:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel inclined to defend the honor of my instructor. so basically, **** you ssf. if you absolutely feel that omega can't give sambo rankings then come over and find out on your own. through me.
  5. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 11:00am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why does every thread about SAMBO end up being about belt system?
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 1:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SSF View Post
    I am a member of the American Sambo Association and I have written an article for TapouT magazine along with Sambo Steve...
    Hey, what a cowinkydink! I'm a member of the ASA too and have pitched in some help on a few chores for the organization on occasion. Other than donating $50/year to help along what I feel is a good cause in martial arts pushed forward by a group of guys who look like they know what they're doing with the means to get it done, what does that mean for someone like myself who isn't a grappler?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  7. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 2:50pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK. I can't reply at length...I am at the gym. I will clarify my thoughts on ranks again later. Or, someone can cut and paste my last rant from the other thread. Again, though regarding in house or antiquated ranks. We are not discussing what they mean to their holders personally, but what they mean in the sambo community generally...which is nothing.

    Regarding the article SSF wrote for Tapout, we did no co-write it. I was interviewed for it. I have not seen the finished version, nor did I have any editorial control. So, no, we did not write it together.

    SSF, welcome to BS. You need to learn how to present an investigation here, lay out your claims and evidence, so you dont look like a guy just ranting on line.

    And, again, I advise everyone to go to our website and read what it means to be an ASA member. Membership in the ASA is not equated with skill, rank, credential, etc. It indicates support in the growth of our community. We try to keep a honorable group and try to monitor as best we can the credentials of our members. But we do not stand behind any such ranking systems...even though some of our members use them (which we strongly discourage).
    Last edited by sambosteve; 1/21/2012 2:53pm at .
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  8. sambosteve is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 3:49pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeFan View Post
    Why does every thread about SAMBO end up being about belt system?
    Because there is none and the folks that use them confuse the situation for those who dont know any better. That fact that this discussion happens over and over again is itself evidence of this.

    If someone claimed a black belt in karate, judo, or BJJ, nobody would blink an eye (about the existence of such ranks). But, mention one about sambo and this debate will happen. Why? Because there are no universally accepted ranks. People can rationalize all they want, but in the end sambo black belts mean nothing in the sambo world at large.

    Omega, it is not the sambo world that has it wrong, it is the few outliers who contradict the majority.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  9. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 4:58pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, back to the OP.

    I feel obligated to post this link about what it means to be an ASA member:
    http://ussambo.com/sambo_school_membership.html

    SSF, what specifically can you tell us about the person in question?
    Who awarded, or sold as you suggest, him his "brown belt" in Sambo?
    Last edited by sambosteve; 1/21/2012 5:18pm at .
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation

    "disgruntled ex student who couldn't hack training with Dave and his material and opted out (could be called pussied out) of training to go to Sambo" - Mor Sao
  10. SSF is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2012 5:22pm


     Style: MMA/BJJ/Sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, Eric and Mike are from my home town and I know the guys. They never took a Sambo class. Two of their students were on vacation in FL and stopped by Carlos Cummings school and trained a few times. Mike called Carlos about joining his association. Next thing I know, Mike is claiming a Sambo Brown Belt. Turns out he bought it off of another guy in our town who has a club belt. The guy told me he sold the brown belt and a few other belts to Mike's students for $50 each. He said it was the easiest money he ever made. The guy is a friend of mine and I told him what he did was BS. To which he replied "belts don't mean **** and if they are dumb enough to pay then **** them". Problem is, they are soiling the sambo name by teaching BS that they don't know. These are guys that I know personally and I know the BS around them. Sorry if I posted in the wrong section or in the wrong format. I have been a member of this site for a long time but I hardly ever come on here so I do not know the "correct" format of posting that will make Omega happy.
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