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  1. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2012 9:30pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    How so?
    Forcing the body to acclimate is a pretty common strategy.
    It's one of the reasons the Olympic training center is at altitude.
    Hypoxic tents, altitude training, and the aforementioned snorkel etc are nothing new.
    I've done some underwater rock running, that sucks big time.
    You do repeats of this, sometimes with increasing depth, with only one breath between each run.
    The adaptations to altitude come from LOW oxygen demand periods. Living there is what triggers it, not training there.

    http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/altitude/wgh.html is an example, but almost every paper on "live high, train low" will say the same thing. Here's the quote.
    "Living and training at altitude is less effective than living at altitude and training near sea level, because the lack of oxygen at altitude results in detraining through reduction in intensity of training."

    These results have been validated and duplicated many, many times over. The reason we have a traditional association with altitude training is because generally the people there have been living at altitude as well(sleep chambers make sense here too, because you don't train in your sleep), so of course they associated the positive gains in endurance with living there. By restricting oxygen during training, you get all the negative effects (detraining) and none of the positive effects (increased hemoglobin, mitochondrial enzymes, etc). So you're just engaging in bro-science if you wear the retarded snorkels or training masks.
  2. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/20/2012 9:57pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what you're saying is that Phrost should LIVE in a snorkel, and TRAIN without it?

    I like this idea even better.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 12:41am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1) What the Cassius said.
    2)
    Living and training at altitude is less effective than...
    doesn't equate to the latter not being effective.
    3) I'll go one further, living at altitude, wearing a snorkel all the time AND doing hypoxic training would be best.
    4) Does the military test for EPO? Blood doping?
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 11:32am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In practice, the military will not test anyone for any sort of performance enhancing substances unless there are multiple witnesses testifying to its use. I shudder to use the popular BS meme, but in this case it is appropriate: Video or it didn't happen.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 11:39am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    1) What the Cassius said.
    2)
    doesn't equate to the latter not being effective.
    3) I'll go one further, living at altitude, wearing a snorkel all the time AND doing hypoxic training would be best.
    4) Does the military test for EPO? Blood doping?
    No, it wouldn't. Did you not read? THe paper(and dozens of other studies like it) establish that training at altitude is actually a negative, because your body decreasing intensity to compensate. Resistance to hypoxia isn't the primary determinant of endurance. That's why the currently most effective scheme is Live High, Train Low. You want MORE oxygen available during higher intensity work, so that your aerobic system is producing more of the total power.

    Seriously, google "Live High Train Low" on google scholar
  6. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 1:41pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are moving tho e goalposts.
    We were responding to this:
    By restricting oxygen during training, you get all the negative effects (detraining) and none of the positive effects (increased hemoglobin, mitochondrial enzymes, etc).
    But anyhow:

    The important factor in haematological adaptation in athletes at moderate altitude is hypoxia.
    http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1439...5GNiQRsP2CRU.6

    Thus the present study indicates no effect of 2 wk of altitude training on VO2 max but provides evidence to suggest an improvement in short-term exercise performance, which may be the result of an increase in muscle buffer capacity.
    (my bold)
    http://jap.physiology.org/content/68/2/496.short

    In conclusion, work capacity at altitude was increased more by training at altitude than at sea level. Work capacity at sea level was at least as much improved by altitude as by sea level training.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/j24548623l183141/
  7. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2012 9:07pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    1.) What the ChenPengFi said.

    2.) Given the time required for an old codger like Phrost to achieve a 100 on the run event (13:36, I believe), acclimating his muscles to tolerate some degree of oxygen starvation is going to help.
    So 1.5 or 2 miles in 13.36 and all this talk of using low oxygen training, lol. Seriously forget the damn snorkel and just run.
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2012 9:41pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    So 1.5 or 2 miles in 13.36 and all this talk of using low oxygen training, lol. Seriously forget the damn snorkel and just run.
    It's 2 miles, and I agree with you. It's how I train for the APFT. But that doesn't mean I can't have a little fun at Phrost's expense, seeing as he is old and slow.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2012 11:51am

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    So 1.5 or 2 miles in 13.36 and all this talk of using low oxygen training, lol. Seriously forget the damn snorkel and just run.
    Yes but pedantry is de rigueur here...
  10. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2012 11:56am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was training to become a kung fu teacher, I had to run 2 miles every week and continuously improve. My final goal was to finish in under 13 minutes and I did. For training, I did hill sprints instead of distance running, figuring that a fast two miles isn't best developed by jogging many miles.
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