Klay Pittman - a critical look at his system

**joejitwho** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 2:34pm

Originally Posted by jnp

Missing posts moved here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114514

This thread may or may not stay in AdGrap. I'm not the one who moved it here, but I trust the judgement of the person who did.

The situation is a bit complicated for me since Mr. Pittman is a student of Carlos Machado like my instructor, William Vandry. I will probably ask Omega or IIF to moderate this thread in the interest of avoiding the appearance of nepotism.

You can just delete the thread. I've learned what I wanted to know and there is no point in worrying about nepotism or further controversy. As I said earlier, I know my tone can sound accusing and people just skimming my initial post may assume things about Klay which are not correct.

Thank you for everyones help, opinion, and information.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:11pm

Originally Posted by joejitwho

Yes, they are questions to be asked of him, but I needed to do some research about it first so I could properly understand his answer. For instance, he could have explained that he meant he was the highest ranking student of Machado, not the highest ranking person in America, but I would not have known who Machado was.

Yes and yet you came here questioning if he was legit. You didn't ask questions about his grappling or techniques. You addressed his sales tactics while dinging his status. Like I said earlier it is right there on the website you quoted. For all I know he said Machado and you didn't pick up on it.

I understand that I'm coming across as investigating too much, but most of it is me asking questions because I don't know much. Like with the red belt thing, for all I know it's sacrilege to give them out like that and it shows he doesn't care for the art, or it's not a big deal at all. I provide information and links because I don't expect others to do it for me. I have to make specific statements so that someone can prove them wrong or confirm them. I know you think I'm trying to start **** or call him out but I have no perspective on the issue, and I appreciate that you have given me some. You are saying these things aren't a big deal in the sport, which is not something I could have known on my own.

Starting ****? get that chip off your shoulder. I said no such thing. I am calling you out on not asking these questions in the first place. He said something that made you uneasy and instead of asking questions of the guy, you came here and posted a thread asking if he was legit. Let's be clear on that part.

My last comment on this. I draw the line at the type of claim you make when you are putting someone in the position to purchase with an immediate hard sale. If I sold cars and told you that this is the fastest car in America and you bought it, and then found out I really meant that it was the fastest car designed by a specific person, I assume you would feel a bit lied to. It may still be a nice car, but you thought you were getting the fastest there was. It's one thing to hard sell an abstract concept like that, this is the best looking car, but to say this car can hit 220 mph and no other cars can even get above 200, you're making a direct claim. The way you phrase your sale matters. Anyways, there's no point in arguing it anymore. I honestly appreciate you taking the time to reply on this matter, my misgivings are much less than they initially were.

Yes, and if I misheard you, when it was actually the fastest car from that company in America, whose fault is that?

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:28pm

Originally Posted by jnp

Missing posts moved here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114514

This thread may or may not stay in AdGrap. I'm not the one who moved it here, but I trust the judgement of the person who did.

The situation is a bit complicated for me since Mr. Pittman is a student of Carlos Machado like my instructor, William Vandry. I will probably ask Omega or IIF to moderate this thread in the interest of avoiding the appearance of nepotism.

Like I said before in another thread. I have no idea where this should go. I felt because of his rank it should go in here. I'm willing to hear anybody's opinion on that matter.

**joejitwho** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:40pm

For the sake of debate...

Yes and yet you came here questioning if he was legit. You didn't ask questions about his grappling or techniques.

From my title: Is his system legit?

From my first post:

"From my research it seems that Pittman is talented and a genuine student of Machado for his first black belt...

I'm not here to call out the abilities of Pittman or his trainers, they seem to be legit and were courteous to me when we spoke."

For all I know he said Machado and you didn't pick up on it.

He could have, I have only stated what I heard.

Starting ****? get that chip off your shoulder. I said no such thing. I am calling you out on not asking these questions in the first place.

Fair enough, you seem to be upset with my questioning would have been a better way to say it.

How could I ask these questions in the first place? I know nothing about belt systems. I don't know if 5th degree is incredibly high for BJJ. I had no basis with which to ask questions. Like I said earlier, I could have asked him a bunch of dumb questions before coming here but I thought instead of wasting his time I would see if there was any reason for me to be concerned.

He said something that made you uneasy and instead of asking questions of the guy

I have never said that. When he said it all I thought it was pretty cool so I decided to look up more about him, see if he had any fights on youtube, etc. I saw his website only said 4th degree, which it could be an old site which hasn't been updated, but I don't know that. That is when I found a bunch of threads calling him out for his system.

posted a thread asking if he was legit.

I never questioned his skills or his trainers skills. Obviously I knew nothing about how gaining rank occurs or how long it takes. My questioning of his degree was centered on my ignorance of the system. Yeah it seemed weird to me that he would get two degrees that quickly, but what am I basing that on? I have to ask if that is odd or not. I have never insulted him or said he was not a skilled fighter. I think the fact that I found enough people saying that even Carlos and Royce objected to his belting system, was reason enough to ask more about it.

Yes, and if I misheard you, when it was actually the fastest car from that company in America, whose fault is that?

You act as if you know he definitely did not say he was a 5th degree and was not aware of anyone else his rank. If I did mishear of course it's my fault, all I can attest to is what I remember.

**joejitwho** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:42pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

Like I said before in another thread. I have no idea where this should go. I felt because of his rank it should go in here. I'm willing to hear anybody's opinion on that matter.

Is there a reason the thread can not be deleted at my request?

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:48pm

Originally Posted by joejitwho

Is there a reason the thread can not be deleted at my request?

It's not our policy to do so.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 3:50pm

Originally Posted by joejitwho

For the sake of debate...

From my title: Is his system legit?

From my first post:

"From my research it seems that Pittman is talented and a genuine student of Machado for his first black belt...

I'm not here to call out the abilities of Pittman or his trainers, they seem to be legit and were courteous to me when we spoke."

He could have, I have only stated what I heard.

Fair enough, you seem to be upset with my questioning would have been a better way to say it.

How could I ask these questions in the first place? I know nothing about belt systems. I don't know if 5th degree is incredibly high for BJJ. I had no basis with which to ask questions. Like I said earlier, I could have asked him a bunch of dumb questions before coming here but I thought instead of wasting his time I would see if there was any reason for me to be concerned.

I have never said that. When he said it all I thought it was pretty cool so I decided to look up more about him, see if he had any fights on youtube, etc. I saw his website only said 4th degree, which it could be an old site which hasn't been updated, but I don't know that. That is when I found a bunch of threads calling him out for his system.

I never questioned his skills or his trainers skills. Obviously I knew nothing about how gaining rank occurs or how long it takes. My questioning of his degree was centered on my ignorance of the system. Yeah it seemed weird to me that he would get two degrees that quickly, but what am I basing that on? I have to ask if that is odd or not. I have never insulted him or said he was not a skilled fighter. I think the fact that I found enough people saying that even Carlos and Royce objected to his belting system, was reason enough to ask more about it.

You act as if you know he definitely did not say he was a 5th degree and was not aware of anyone else his rank. If I did mishear of course it's my fault, all I can attest to is what I remember.

Go look at your posts. There is asking, there is ranting and there is both. You are doing them all. In all of those people you "found" how many said his techniques weren't legit and wouldn't transfer to other schools?

Act? You are indignant that I have turned your own words around at you.

**joejitwho** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 4:26pm

In all of those people you "found" how many said his techniques weren't legit and wouldn't transfer to other schools?

Those are two different things. I have already stated that no one said he wasn't a good fighter, they said he was very technical and taught well. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. I never said his techniques weren't legit, I said that I read the belts weren't legit. How many other schools give a child a purple or red belt? How is their rank supposed to transfer when other schools don't use those ranks for children? I have never questioned his ability to teach or the techniques he teaches.

Act? You are indignant that I have turned your own words around at you.

I'm saying they apply to you as well. I have a memory to go by, your words assumed that I was incorrect the same I way I assume what I heard was correct.

**joejitwho** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 4:35pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

It's not our policy to do so.

Since I can not, I am asking that you do so. Having had my questions addressed and done more research, I feel that the first post sounds much worse than it actually is. I'm not a fighter, I'm a parent who was concerned about the legitimacy of the system. While it is not standard, it's not illegal or unknown and the majority of the first page is due to my ignorance of the subject. There isn't any ground breaking information here that people need to see and I feel it could do harm to his business if uneducated people like myself search, find this post, and assume my initial concerns were warranted. Pittman is not a scam artist, he's a talented martial artist and businessman. I see no reason why this post needs to be left up, as only myself and staff members have contributed to the discussion. Thanks for consideration.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 4:37pm

I'll confirm the belts are not IBJJF or really generally BJJ community wide adopted belt system. I think IFF you're being a little harsh on the guy, he said his grief is that Pittman's belt system,nickel and dime game and the hard sell attitude wasn't cool. (or at least that's my opinion)

Now I agree with IFF you're not going to get any ground with the "Well he said he was ____" We can't take you at your word, and really not many others will. Dem's the brakes. I still think it's ok for you to say you don't approve his methods and you want people to be aware of it.

Edit: Joe nobody's thread ever gets deleted. It keeps the site honest so you know if you ask questions nobody will cover them up.