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  1. BryanW is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:15pm


     Style: French Smallsword

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly I WOULD narrow it down to the specific populations and specific aspects. Even if you're are "only getting X type" the data will likely be more valid. Its better to have an accurate conclusion applying to a select population than a contested, unreliable generalizable conclusion (IE: "90% of all fights go to the ground"). Yes the result is less generalizable but may be more useful to someone reading the article for a specific purpose. Also if you continue to get similar results across the board you could always attempt a meta-analysis to support a general statement.

    The unfortunate piece of this is there aren't any good studies because its not easy to measure. People getting into a street fight don't actively look for a place they can be recorded first.

    I think any poll in this matter is going to basically be a poll of opinion which will be a terrible data source full of personal bias. Don't waste your time with that. Look for something you can objectively look at and mark down whether or not it went to the ground.

    You also have to define if "going to the ground" means the fight ends there, is there for 5 seconds...20 seconds.....a percentage of the time of the fight......etc.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Crackfox the only way to realistically get enough data is viewing cctv footage.

    The only way to do that cheaply and without a lot of issues around applying for footage that may be evidence etc...

    Is to use youtube, which has already been done by someone. I think you mentioned this in your article in the other thread.

    If you introduced some reasonable criteria for admission for the videos and then gathered a useful sample size you'd probably get some decent results.
  3. BryanW is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:38pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I agree with Crackfox the only way to realistically get enough data is viewing cctv footage.

    The only way to do that cheaply and without a lot of issues around applying for footage that may be evidence etc...

    Is to use youtube, which has already been done by someone. I think you mentioned this in your article in the other thread.

    If you introduced some reasonable criteria for admission for the videos and then gathered a useful sample size you'd probably get some decent results.
    I would not use youtube. You need a method that deals with the boring as well as exciting...you need an "all comers" take on things. CCTV is fine if you can get it. If you talk to some sort of management level for the state police, explain what you're doing and spin it that it might help streamline police martial arts training, you might be able to get an IRB to officially approve the study and get access to all the recordings done from a police cruiser during police interaction provided all personally identifying information is removed.
  4. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:48pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Provided you have suitable randomization, a sample doesn't have to be as big as most people would think in order to be statistically significant.
    The number my Profs taught was "100" as the lower bounds of sample size.

    I admit that I haven't kept my finger on the pulse of Statistical methods since those days, low these many years ago but the courses on Stats that I took at U. has been really helpful in smelling out BS when politicians want to push a particular agenda and start spouting numbers.

    Is 100 still the lower bounds?

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  5. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:51pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanW View Post
    I would not use youtube. You need a method that deals with the boring as well as exciting...you need an "all comers" take on things. CCTV is fine if you can get it. If you talk to some sort of management level for the state police, explain what you're doing and spin it that it might help streamline police martial arts training, you might be able to get an IRB to officially approve the study and get access to all the recordings done from a police cruiser during police interaction provided all personally identifying information is removed.
    Interesting idea. Thanks.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  6. BryanW is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 1:59pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regarding "numbers", the numbers can be calculated when you calculate Power of the study. How you ask your question/phrase your null hypothesis will help determine this. It depends on how specific a difference you're looking for. For example if you're looking for a tiny difference you'll need larger numbers. If you're looking for a big difference you might not need as many numbers. However the more the better, especially when it comes time to critique your study and people will ask if its real based on a relatively small sample size.
  7. CrackFox is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 2:04pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    The number my Profs taught was "100" as the lower bounds of sample size.
    It really depends on what you're testing, what kind of assumptions you want to make and how confident you want to be in your assertions.

    Sorry, that's not a very useful answer I'm not great at doing these kinds of statistics, I come from an AI background where you don't get to decide on which information you use.

    EDIT: Yeah, what BryanW said.
  8. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 2:23pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Sorry, that's not a very useful answer I'm not great at doing these kinds of statistics, I come from an AI background where you don't get to decide on which information you use.
    Lucky.

    I come from a Computer Information Systems (aka "MIS") background, back when there was a real difference between programming written for businesses and programming written for scientific applications. Where my Computer Science friends took FORTRAN, I took COBOL (we all took C, however). When they took several courses of Calculus, I took several courses of Statistics. The whole focus of my statistics training was based on a Business theory. The closest we ever got to these sort of theoretical questions was trying to use surveys to predict customer behavior. And I didn't pay that close attention to even that because I figured, "what do I care? I'm going into PROGRAMMING!" I did pay a little closer attention when we discussed ways to gen up comparative metrics on efficiency of our code but I gave that up as an anachronism when I finally realized that more and more programming was going onto PC's and Moore's Law made most people not give a crap how efficient their code was because they'd just +1 up-rev. the system requirements. :P

    Like I said, up until this point in my life, I've used the God-only-knows-how-many-hours I put in on all those Stats classes to "sniff test" other people's sound-byte stats. I suppose that it also made skeptical the first time I heard the 90% quote which started this whole search for me. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  9. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 2:33pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    I work in academia and so far one of the biggest revelations I've had in my career is that if it's not clear how you should measure something, chances are you haven't properly narrowed down what it is you want to measure.

    Get a nice specific question/hypothesis first. It's probably going to end up sounding like a very unambitious question, but it's much better to have an unambitious question you can answer than a really thought-provoking one that there is no simple answer for.

    Also, outside of a few fields, the information you get from polls is usually bullshit. Avoid polls.
    This is an excellent post, and mentions the pitfalls I came across when I first had to write a proper research paper.
  10. Kave is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2012 5:33pm


     Style: MMA noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You need to define what you mean by fights. If any violent physical confrontation counts, then you are missing a lot by going to cctv or youtube. I would guess (based on listening to police scanners) that the most common physical violence scenario is male assaults female in a domestic incident. These assaults are usually carried out behind closed doors, and you are not going to get adequate representation of this sort of violence by going to youtube or cctv footage.
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