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  1. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 3:16pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    An old boss of mine was stabbed 17 times during a mugging in South Africa, and he lived. The trauma of knife wounds is not an exact science, especially enacted by a teenager with a pocket knife. Without a video of the incident, and a description/pic of the weapon, its hard to figure out if this was a panicking kid flailing his weapon until the guy finally stopped attacking, or if it was a kid stabbing another kid once, putting him into shock, then finishing him with malicious vengeance.
  2. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 3:34pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    An old boss of mine was stabbed 17 times during a mugging in South Africa, and he lived. The trauma of knife wounds is not an exact science, especially enacted by a teenager with a pocket knife. Without a video of the incident, and a description/pic of the weapon, its hard to figure out if this was a panicking kid flailing his weapon until the guy finally stopped attacking, or if it was a kid stabbing another kid once, putting him into shock, then finishing him with malicious vengeance.
    It was probably a mixture of anger and fear. My guess is he just wanted it to stop, there is however the fact that he brought a weapon with him to school. I have to wonder if this incident could have been avoided if the school had intervened.
  3. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 9:08am

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    It was probably a mixture of anger and fear. My guess is he just wanted it to stop.
    People do not want to live in fear. Adrenaline does really crazy things to the human body.
    As a child, I was admonished by my mother for picking on my younger, much smaller brother. She told me to never pick on anyone and that someone smaller is likely to use an equalizer.
  4. chemsoldier is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 3:57pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    REF: Number of stabs

    When I was training to be a reserve police officer we did a block of training on responding to an active shooter in a school. We used airsoft guns in place of the real thing to allow force on force training.

    We entered a room and I went left, I heard firing in the center where the suspect had just shot one of the other guys in the stack. I turned, saw the threat and immediately shot the perpetrator in the face (not a deliberate target selection, it just kind of happened) and the wierd thing is I shot him about 5 more times watching the pellets whap into his paintball mask.

    I knew it was just training, the dude stopped resisting and was even shouting "OK, I'm done!" But I was fixated. I can only imagine how much more powerful it would be, for real, against someone you really perceive as a threat, at bad breath distance with a knife. I dont know if I would read too much into the number of stabs. At least not by itself.
  5. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2012 12:50pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chemsoldier View Post
    REF: Number of stabs

    When I was training to be a reserve police officer we did a block of training on responding to an active shooter in a school. We used airsoft guns in place of the real thing to allow force on force training.

    We entered a room and I went left, I heard firing in the center where the suspect had just shot one of the other guys in the stack. I turned, saw the threat and immediately shot the perpetrator in the face (not a deliberate target selection, it just kind of happened) and the wierd thing is I shot him about 5 more times watching the pellets whap into his paintball mask.

    I knew it was just training, the dude stopped resisting and was even shouting "OK, I'm done!" But I was fixated. I can only imagine how much more powerful it would be, for real, against someone you really perceive as a threat, at bad breath distance with a knife. I dont know if I would read too much into the number of stabs. At least not by itself.
    This. I think the more significant piece of evidence would be that he had the pocket knife at school and had made people aware of that. That indicates some level of premeditation to me.
  6. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2012 1:26pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Once Nuno began his assault it became academic. Florida law is pretty specific about this. Hence the decision.

    Both sides agree that Nuno struck Saavedra in the BACK of the head, from behind when he exited the bus. That's assault and battery, and Saavedra was justified to meet force with force at that point.

    Philosophically, it's a quagmire. 12 stabs doesn't bother me, as **** happens fast when you are scared and fighting. It's possible that 8 of them are just scratches, as well. Context is important here.

    Saavedra's possession of the blade, and his willingness to display it, indicate that he was aware of the threat and prepared to meet it. One could argue that had he more actively sought to involve third parties and authority figures, this could easily have been avoided. Florida law, however, does not require this.

    Nuno was old enough to understand the ramifications of physically assaulting someone under Fla. law. Furthermore, we should not be punching each other in the back of the head at all.

    My sympathies go to both families, but a 16-year-old does not get a pass from me on this. Nuno made a stupid, ill-advised, immature, and antisocial decision. Teenagers do this every day in America, and every day teenagers die from it.

    Whether it be a car, drugs, guns, or bravado, at some point the consequences for immaturity become dire. When I was sixteen a took an '85 Chevy pickup through an intersection at 75mph just because I was racing a buddy. We traded some paint and we both ended up going off the road. I missed a telephone pole by less than a foot.

    I should be dead. But I got lucky. If I had died, there would have been no one to blame but me.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2012 2:02pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ignoring the magnitude of injuries caused by this large knife-wielder, note how quickly 12 stabs can be delivered by a spazzing individual:
  8. WoodyCorpus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2012 10:31am


     Style: American Kenpo, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokikai90 View Post
    This. I think the more significant piece of evidence would be that he had the pocket knife at school and had made people aware of that. That indicates some level of premeditation to me.
    I respectfully disagree.
    I believe it was more a case of MAD, or mutually assured destruction.

    Why do I believe such a thing?
    Simple, smart premeditation would include a certain level of stealth in planning the use of said weapon. Overtly saying he possessed such a weapon indicates to me that all he wanted was to scare the other guy away. " You try and f*** me up again, and there's a fair chance I take your life"

    I've been bullied for a long time. I still feel it somedays, but that's ok. My pain treshold is up the wazoo and that became a plus when I started my martial arts training again.
    But when the bullying was at its worst, I started having thoughts and even fantasies about torturing my bullies.Therapy eventually helped me to understand that this did not make me a sociopath, just a person with with damaged pride and some issues about my personality.
    So do I understand 12 stabs?

    Yes. I understand them, but I don't condone them. The sheer emotional impact of that moment makes it likely, IMO, that the target just goes balistic and ennacts all that built up rage on his agonist in one regurgitation. One moment of sheer, blind, vengefull fury.
    This kid had no training, he just wanted it to stop. One way, or another...

    This kid needs help and a lot, because by giving in to his urges to destroy his agonists, he has crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed, ever.

    Respectfully
    Woody
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2012 11:37am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I will respectfully disagree. If the report is true, he did everything a normal person would do to avoid the confrontation. He may need help dealing with what he did , but to say he gave into his urges is a stretch. It went on for a year, he said he didn't want to fight, got off at a different stop, and reacted only after he was hit, allegedly, from behind in the back of the head.
  10. WoodyCorpus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2012 2:30pm


     Style: American Kenpo, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Well, I will respectfully disagree. If the report is true, he did everything a normal person would do to avoid the confrontation. He may need help dealing with what he did , but to say he gave into his urges is a stretch. It went on for a year, he said he didn't want to fight, got off at a different stop, and reacted only after he was hit, allegedly, from behind in the back of the head.
    I extrapolated from personal experience only. Apologies if that wasn't clear, or if I got carried away.
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