Baseball bat or knife?

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 1:16am

Let's take a look at Cheng's reply to my post. But first, I'll admit my reply to the thread was hastily done. I gave a brief description of my home defense considerations and threw out a pseudo scenario, so it's only fitting that Cheng replies with a full on macro-scenario that trumps mine.

Originally Posted by ChenPengFi

If your house is so insecure that a person can get in in a few moments, perhaps better windows and locks are prudent.

Yes my house has windows, so yes my house is "so insecure" that someone can break one and get in in a few moments.

You are also potentially ignoring the likelihood that an intruder (who is not deterred by your presence or the threat of getting arrested) will be armed and not alone.
So perhaps your daughter gets to watch two guys with machetes chop you to bits while the other two grab her and stand off with your wife at gunpoint.
Now she had better have really good aim, with you fighting and your daughter in the mix.

This scenario is so retarded it doesn't really deserve comment. But I'm a little paranoid and don't mind analyzing a potential break in scenario, who knows if Cheng brings some logic into the discussion I may just change my strategy.

Four gun and machete wielding crazys are breaking into my house now? Or is it two machete guys and my rambo wife has the other two at gunpoint? Either way i'm fucked, there's not much I can do if four armed men break into my house. My point was if I hear a break in I'm not going to my closet, fumbling with keys to unlock my gun safe, and loading a gun under super high stress. I'm grabbing the nearest machete eliminating the attacker as he attempts to climb in the window he just smashed out and taking it from there. If there are three more machete guys I still may have a chance as they attempt to enter the house. If I take the time to get my gun they might just make it inside, then i've got to secure my kid and possibly shoot an attacker that could be near my kid, then get my wife (or maybe she comes with me? maybe she calls 911 while I grab the kid?)

I

I'd rather have the whole family behind the gun, and all the bad guys in front of it.
The final door/barricade makes them sitting ducks as well.
That's also using the "home court" to your advantage.

I agree with that quote, but how do you suppose I get my whole family behind the gun? Keep a loaded weapon under my pillow at all times? Maybe we should all just sleep in one bed? Explain "the right way" to deal with your four machete armed attacker scenario.

I live in a good neighborhood with a strong military family presence the odds of a break in any scenario are minimal. I just don't see the necessity to keep a gun readily available compared to the risks and liability of having children in my home

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 5:21am

My choice, given the two options, is manifest: I'd have a knife with me. Specifically, my Ontario Knives SP2. I would not investigate the threat; I would call 911 whilst monitoring the lone point of entry to the room. I once described the strategy thusly: “Anyone who comes through that door, whose first name isn't ‘Officer,’ is getting shot.” Of course, range and equipment would preclude shooting in the scenario the OP describes.

The simple fact is that I am physically incapable of running away, so I'd be in fear of my life automatically if someone attacked me in my home. In America, that means I'd shoot my assailant. In Canada, that means I'd stab the bastard.

I have no blood lust, and I do not long to be a killer. Nevertheless, my objective will be to kill. I can not escape from anything other than a dead body. Should I be required to use my knife rather than my gun, I'll be hoping for arterial spray: such a gruesome sight would be proof positive that I'm safe (until such time as accomplices make themselves known). In my eyes, planning to simply would an attacker in such a scenario smacks of dangerous vanity.

By the way, I know well that I'm far more likely to be killed than to kill.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 5:36am

Originally Posted by Permalost

If someone were to defend their home with some kind of horror like this:

how would that affect the legal outcome of the case? Badly, I'd imagine. I know laws vary etc etc but but I gotta imagine it would have a negative effect on the judge and jury, especially when Exhibit A has chunks of flesh in it.

Technically, in the UK, using such a thing inside your house wouldn't alter the legal situation from, say, a kitchen knife. Though you may well have committed a crime when you made it. Clearly, however, it's not going to make any prosecutor, jury or plod feel warmer or more fuzzy inside.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 9:07am

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

Let's take a look at Cheng's reply to my post. But first, I'll admit my reply to the thread was hastily done. I gave a brief description of my home defense considerations and threw out a pseudo scenario, so it's only fitting that Cheng replies with a full on macro-scenario that trumps mine.

Yeah, Cheng was wearing me out with his responses. I had a big post typed up but said **** it, and didn't post it.

Basically Cheng's aswer to the op was: "I will not answer your question, instead I will answer a question of my choosing, and then argue it with outlandish hypothetical scenerios."

But that is the problem with these self defence type threads.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 11:00am

Originally Posted by Permalost

If someone were to defend their home with some kind of horror like this:

how would that affect the legal outcome of the case? Badly, I'd imagine. I know laws vary etc etc but but I gotta imagine it would have a negative effect on the judge and jury, especially when Exhibit A has chunks of flesh in it.

I'm guessing that after using something like that one would place the head of the intruder on a pike as a warning to others. I assume that's what they use to play baseball in Detroit.

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 11:22am

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

Technically, in the UK, using such a thing inside your house wouldn't alter the legal situation from, say, a kitchen knife. Though you may well have committed a crime when you made it. Clearly, however, it's not going to make any prosecutor, jury or plod feel warmer or more fuzzy inside.

Here that would be premeditation. Your weapon of choice has to have been just sitting there for no reason.

A lot of people in Australia do bedroom baseball and gardening.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 11:37am

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

Here that would be premeditation. Your weapon of choice has to have been just sitting there for no reason.

You can't be convicted because your lawful self-defence was premeditated. There'd have to be a specific crime of having something in your house intending to use it as a weapon, which I don't think there is.

**KO'd N DOA** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 12:20pm

Bat

I have worked out some drills scenarios in case my house is targetted. In place of a bat I have worked out a combination of hockey sticks, throwing knives, arrows, bear spray and hatchets in no particular order.

Of course the last time some youth were breaking into my garden shed all that planning went out of the window and I charged out of my house without anything in hand, bellowing like a bull moose and tried to catch them as if they were leprechans... so ya I probably will be gutted by the 4 armed home invaders.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 12:39pm

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

This scenario is so retarded it doesn't really deserve comment. But I'm a little paranoid and don't mind analyzing a potential break in scenario, who knows if Cheng brings some logic into the discussion I may just change my strategy.

Four gun and machete wielding crazys are breaking into my house now? Or is it two machete guys and my rambo wife has the other two at gunpoint? Either way i'm fucked, there's not much I can do if four armed men break into my house.

What is stupid is your earlier presumption of a single unarmed man, that is my point.
How the hell did he break the window? With his fists? (So perhaps we should at least assume he has a bludgeon, no?)

Why the hell would a single unarmed man hang around once you turned on the lights?
You, by your plan, put yourself between the gun and the bad guys, that's retarded.
All of this without while charging to the front armed only with a machete. Idiot...

My point was if I hear a break in I'm not going to my closet, fumbling with keys to unlock my gun safe, and loading a gun under super high stress.

Get the family first, and lock them in the room with you, the one with the gun safe.
Get it?

I'm grabbing the nearest machete eliminating the attacker as he attempts to climb in the window he just smashed out and taking it from there.

Go Rambo!!!

If there are three more machete guys I still may have a chance ...

What about one guy with a gun?
You just ran out there knowing nothing, according to your scenario.
You'd likely be dead, imo.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/05/2012 12:44pm

Originally Posted by Diesel_tke

Yeah, Cheng was wearing me out with his responses. I had a big post typed up but said **** it, and didn't post it.

Basically Cheng's aswer to the op was: "I will not answer your question, instead I will answer a question of my choosing, and then argue it with outlandish hypothetical scenerios."

But that is the problem with these self defence type threads.

Lol, fair enough.
Sorry for any tedium.
Here, this got buried but sums up my position re the op:

You are splitting hairs between two really poor responses

and i'd also add
"Use whatever weapon necessary to protect you and yours, but don't assume you have the upper hand with a knife or bat."