Baseball bat or knife?

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 11:08am

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

If I'm thinking of the same video, the guy was wielding the bat one handed thus using it rather ineffectively it's not surprise the guys he hit got back up. That video can't be cited as an example of the non-lethality of baseball bats. Any other person using a bat who has at least hit a T ball once back in the day will grab the bat two handed and let some serious power fly.

Personally, I don't see why we are arguing the lethality of bat vs knife unless some states or countries really do require you to use less than lethal force on intruders. IN which case using a bat could still go terribly wrong if you were trying not to use lethal force.

The requirement to barricade yourself also sounds impractical. Maybe I missed it but does anyone have source stating where this is a requirement? For a single person home alone it's a reasonable option but I've got a kid who's room is on the other side of my (small) house. My room is by the back door my kid's is by the front if anyone comes in either door I'm grabbing my machete (next to bed) going to my kid's room then we go to my room with my wife and I unlock the gun. If I see anyone while going to get my daughter all the glory of my FMA training will unleash a couple of serious machete blows before I pause to see if there is anyone else around.

A machete is my go to weapon as well, nothing says drop the weapon quite like slicing the intruders hands off. Barricading may not be a good option since you never really know the intruders intent. He may set fire to your house or simply shoot through the door.

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 11:13am

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

For a single person home alone it's a reasonable option but I've got a kid who's room is on the other side of my (small) house.

This is in keeping with my thinking too, although in my case, I've got two boys who are just entering their teens. For the moment they can still make logical choices, but that'll change soon enough.

For all I know, I'm going to hear a noise, find someone climbing in through a window and hopefully realize it's one of my kids (or one of their dumbass friends) before I do something I'll regret. My best friend has already had two of her kids sneaking in (or out) of the house late at night.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 11:34am

I choose bat if those are my only two options. I like the range of the bat even for thrusting if I'm in a hallway. And if the attacker has a knife, I like my bat against his knife.

Personally, I've got verious other options, but that is not this thread.

But to add to ChenPengFi's discussion. Here in Florida we have the "Stand Your Ground" Law which basically says if you break into my house, I can use deadly force. When the law came out people didn't think it would hold up in court. They were wrong. It has held up nicely. Here is a link to a summarization of the law: http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomli...efense-law.htm

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 12:01pm

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

If I'm thinking of the same video, the guy was wielding the bat one handed thus using it rather ineffectively it's not surprise the guys he hit got back up. That video can't be cited as an example of the non-lethality of baseball bats. Any other person using a bat who has at least hit a T ball once back in the day will grab the bat two handed and let some serious power fly.

Personally, I don't see why we are arguing the lethality of bat vs knife unless some states or countries really do require you to use less than lethal force on intruders. IN which case using a bat could still go terribly wrong if you were trying not to use lethal force.

I was citing examples to refute the false dichotomy of knife vs bat;
to wit

...in a home defense both are legal yet both are deadly force and both can cause GBH.

The Chinatown clip was to hammer the point that one can't be very judicious with bludgeoning force if one intends to stop a determined attacker.
The aforementioned 'gradient of force' is not practical, realistic or recognized by law.
That said, while perusing a couple Dog Bros forums threads on bats, i recall the consensus being that the miss of a two-handed swing was considered the weakest aspect of a bat.
Most T-ball players would also have a horrendous back-hand, i'd imagine.
Something to consider.

The requirement to barricade yourself also sounds impractical. Maybe I missed it but does anyone have source stating where this is a requirement?

Not a requirement, but a sequence that is meant to take full advantage of the castle doctrine; ie. it keeps one from being arrested.
Obviously your family should be behind you in the room that's barricaded.
This presupposes that it's possible of course.
Devil's advice is what happens in practice.

For a single person home alone it's a reasonable option but I've got a kid who's room is on the other side of my (small) house. My room is by the back door my kid's is by the front if anyone comes in either door I'm grabbing my machete (next to bed) going to my kid's room then we go to my room with my wife and I unlock the gun. If I see anyone while going to get my daughter all the glory of my FMA training will unleash a couple of serious machete blows before I pause to see if there is anyone else around.

If your house is so insecure that a person can get in in a few moments, perhaps better windows and locks are prudent.
You are also potentially ignoring the likelihood that an intruder (who is not deterred by your presence or the threat of getting arrested) will be armed and not alone.
So perhaps your daughter gets to watch two guys with machetes chop you to bits while the other two grab her and stand off with your wife at gunpoint.
Now she had better have really good aim, with you fighting and your daughter in the mix.
Better?
I'd rather have the whole family behind the gun, and all the bad guys in front of it.
The final door/barricade makes them sitting ducks as well.
That's also using the "home court" to your advantage.

Ftr, this is the resume for the guy who teaches that as part of a class:

Holu, Wayne
Prior service in U.S. Army Military Police who served in the RSVN. After serving with the U.S. Army he gained 37 years background in airline industry.
He is certified by the U.S. Navy Mid-Pacific, as a Weapons & Tactics Instructor for Anti-Terrorism & Force Protection Programs. Having instructed hundreds of sailors in Hawai`i, Guam, Japan, and California, Mr. Holu is an accomplished instructor for civilians, law enforcement, and the military with the use of small arms in defensive shooting.
He has worked at the FAA Technical Center in Atlantic City, New Jersey as a contract Firearms Instructor for the Federal Air Marshal's Program.
He is also a certified Glock Armorer, NRA Civilian, and Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor.
He is a member of International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor (IALEFI), Life Member of the NRA and the Hawaii Rifle Association, Pu`uloa Rifle & Pistol Club, and the Go For Broke Association, 100th Bn, 442nd Inf.

and the advice was almost identical in this guy's classes:

Mr. Patire by trade is a world renowned bodyguard and owns and operates one of the top bodyguard companies in the United States called State of the Art Security Agency which has been in business since 1989. He is also the lead instructor for the International Training Commission which is a company that specializes in training and certifying personnel in the field of Executive Protection (bodyguarding)!

Tom has traveled the world teaching personnel law enforcement, military and security personnel in countries such as Canada, Italy, Peru, Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Philippines and Japan. He services as a private protection specialist have been called upon by people such as Chuck Norris, Rupert Murdoch, Janet Reno, Cher, Mike Myers, 50 cent, Michael Jackson, Phil Collins, Aretha Franklin, just to name a few. And organizations such as the Grammies, Music Awards, Olden Globe, Yankees, Jets, NFL and NBA, among others.

Mr. Patire has been featured in numerous articles and magazines worldwide and he has appeared on many international and national television programs, including a featured documentary on A & E “The Inside Story”, Good Morning America, CNN, Fox News, CBS Morning Show, Inside Edition and The Cobert Report as the go-to-go guy regarding personal safety or national security issues.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 1:26pm

I actually just moved a few weapons into my gfs house for just-in-case scenarios. In the back closet (the farthest place back to hide), there's a double edged dagger in a sheath. If one or both of us are hiding in there and someone gets through the door, there won't be room to swing a two handed bludgeon. Under the bed, there's a kamagong baton on one side and a short spear on the other (basically like a bayonet). I decided on the kamagong stick since its shorter than a bat so easier for using indoors. The spear's on my side, and its short enough that it won't hit any walls or anything.

My problem with the bat is that as a two handed bludgeon, it's not well suited for enclosed areas. If I'm fighting someone down my hallway, I might have trouble getting any good swings with walls on both sides. A bat can also be used for two handed baton thrusts, but the short spear trumps the bat for that application.

On the other hand, I'm more comfortable with the idea of laying into someone with a piece of wood than a knife.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 1:48pm

Originally Posted by Permalost

My problem with the bat is that as a two handed bludgeon, it's not well suited for enclosed areas. If I'm fighting someone down my hallway, I might have trouble getting any good swings with walls on both sides. A bat can also be used for two handed baton thrusts, but the short spear trumps the bat for that application.

On the other hand, I'm more comfortable with the idea of laying into someone with a piece of wood than a knife.

Agreed 100%.

I also don't think the baseball style approach would be best with a bat, i'm thinking using it like a bokken would be much better.

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 5:19pm

I have a nightstick by my bed. It's thicker and heavier than my rattan eskrima, but still one-handed. Also a short wooden sword that seems to be made of coconut wood or something at the end of my bed.

The live bladed katana in my wardrobe would be my last choice, not because it's deadly, but because indoors in my small house, its probably useless.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 1/04/2012 5:48pm

If someone were to defend their home with some kind of horror like this:

how would that affect the legal outcome of the case? Badly, I'd imagine. I know laws vary etc etc but but I gotta imagine it would have a negative effect on the judge and jury, especially when Exhibit A has chunks of flesh in it.