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UKE

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  1. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2012 3:41pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As Ben has explained many times, osoto gari is a terrible, dangerous early throw for beginners. My ukemi is good and I loathe falling for straight back osoto gari--you can easily get thrown on to your head and have almost no way of preventing it. The more sideways versions of osoto aren't so bad though.
  2. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2012 1:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    As Ben has explained many times, osoto gari is a terrible, dangerous early throw for beginners. My ukemi is good and I loathe falling for straight back osoto gari--you can easily get thrown on to your head and have almost no way of preventing it. The more sideways versions of osoto aren't so bad though.
    I still don't teach Osoto Gari to beginners.

    Last night in the advanced class we were working on kenka yotsu (left vs right) grip/move/throw patterns. One of my ikkyu was experimenting with an Ouchi Gari to various attacks after tieing up uke left arm. He moved to t-up, hit the ouchi, I reacted, and then he went for a big Osoto Gari, but just did an uchikomi. I told him never to throw me with that combo/setup because I didn't know if I'd survive the fall, even on our foam block loaded floor.

    I saw my life pass before my eyes and he didn't even throw me.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. brend0_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 5:16am


     Style: Judo N00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the good information. I've been looking to do something new (just done a bit of kickboxing but on a small break from it, want something to cross train in though).

    Been seriously looking into Judo, and after reading so much about the importance of alive training, I think I would have misinterpreted that to mean "stand there and just let them do whatever they are doing".

    At least I can go into it with the right attitude to things.
  4. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 6:34am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still a filthy n00b in judo, but have just come back from an intensive aikido weekend. I wish the role of uke was so clearly defined in aikido, maybe then I'd have been hit in the face, neck and balls less often.
    Getting the right mix of "survive so I can't hit you", "don't block the technique", "don't threaten my, I'm an old man", "don't escape", "escape when your given the chance" etc. has me very frustrated.
    Now back to our usual topic of the mutual welfare and maximum effeciency with minimum effort.
    /end rant
    PS tenchinage is the technique that's screwing me at the moment
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 10:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok chaps, still technique forum here, lets try and keep things on the topic of being a better uke/ukemi.

    Lest we incur JNP's wrath.
  6. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 11:42am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, did't check where I was.

    OT
    Being a good uke opens up more than training opportunities for your partner. It can also teach skills that are useful when you are nage, or in reversals. Although confidence was alluded to in the OP, let me expand on it with a grappling analogy.

    In bjj training a beginner should be happy if they can just survive. Survival, including knowing when to tap early, are the most important things to learn at the beginning (which we could pedantically call ukemi). Once the beginner is happy that they will survive they become more willing to take risks, like opening their guard to try for sweeps. An open guard may be more vulnerable to being passed, but the more confident player will be confident to open that vulnerability for the potential rewards.
    In the same vein a grappler who is confident about their sweeps and passes will be willing to sacrifice a little control in a dominant position to go for a submission.

    In nage waza the confidence that we can take a fall without injury allows us to abandon jigo-tai for the mobility of shizen-tai. As ukemi skills become sharper we can put more resources into looking for openings in our partner for late reversals.

    In nagi komi where nage is freer to add in variations like strikes and changing the technique (like in aikido, or randori with an assigned nage) uke needs sensitivity. When there is a gap in the skills of the two practitioners, uke needs to put a lot attention into sensing what nage is doing to preserve themselves.
    This sensitivity, or "maintaining a steady pressure" is exactly the skill needed as tori to probe for openings in uke.

    tl;dr the skills to be a good uke are the necessary to be an excellent nage
  7. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 3:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Ok chaps, still technique forum here, lets try and keep things on the topic of being a better uke/ukemi.

    Lest we incur JNP's wrath.
    On that topic, my wife found out that Aichi Prefecture asked the local Judo Rempei to instruct PE teachers on how to teach schoolchildren Judo.

    The idea was that, after a grand total of six days of this "teacher-training", the PE teachers involved would be awarded a Shodan.

    Nonplussed, I also looked this up and was relieved to learn that Kodokan had gotten wind of this plan and is investigating.All I can say is, viva quality control.

    In before JNP's ban.
  8. r12477 is online now

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2012 6:44pm


     Style: Judo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bookmarked. I would just like to add to the chorus of comments that this is an excellent article - Many thanks judoka_uk.
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