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  1. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 12:09pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    England's murder ate is about 1.71 per 100,000 which is damned good actually (Consider USA's 4.2). The real takeaway is that while England's violent crime rate is enormously higher, the crimes tend to be a more survivable.

    If England had the same murder vs violent crime Ratio as the US, it would rank in the top ten easily.

    Some more fun with numbers:
    Went to the FBI and census bureau. Of the 8000 or so gun deaths in the US, only 5000 were considered "murders." The rest are justifiable homicide, self-defense, police action, negligent homicide, etc.
    http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s0306.pdf

    SO:
    If England had the same ratio, we get 20592 annual gun murders. That's Mexico-level numbers.

    Out of 429,000 violent crimes in the US in 2009, 12,000 were homicides. 8000 or so were homicides with a firearm. 5000 were actual firearm murders. That's a gun-murder per violent crime ratio of .012%

    England has about 800 homicides a year. Almost none with guns.

    The more I dig the weirder it gets, too.

    England does not report crimes against children under 16. Don't know why, several advocates say ta this makes their violent crime rate closer to ten times the US. I wanna see the numbers before I buy into that.

    Finally, there is just no objective way to tell if guns have anything to do with anything. it's all going to boil down to how the individual weights each factor.
    I would say that guns do infact have something to do with crime, in that they are the effective weapon of choice. A criminal is going to use whatever the current effective weapon available to them. The problem with banning the tool they use is that it will be replaced by te next said tool. In otherwords ban the guns, then they use knives, ban the knives then they use bats etc. etc. It's a never ending ban fest that doesn't truly solve the problem. There's a point were it goes from serving the public good to becoming a police state. I will give you an example: There was about 5 or 6 months ago a story in the paper here about a town in southern Illinois that actually outlawed toy guns. Fucking toy guns!! Why? Well because they didn't want their children to play violent lol. And that's the point I have with this, it's not gun laws per say but where is the line drawn??
  2. Scrapper is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 12:31pm

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    34th is an objective number.

    Once you get holistic with the analysis it quickly becomes a mess.

    A lot of people think the UK is hiding a lot of their crime to avoid looking even worse. Furtermore, I didn't factor in the 3000 or so annual crimes PREVENTED with a firearm in the US. It just gets too damn hairy too fast.

    But at some point you gotta use the data you've got.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  3. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 12:43pm


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    Here's something true but terribly politically incorrect: gun violence in the United States is overwhelmingly an issue for black males ages 16-25. Much more so than individuals in any other group, they are both the perpetrators and victims of gun violence. Black men are many times more likely to be murdered than any other demographic group. There are many different explanations as to the cause, but the facts are what they are. It's very sad and its been this way for decades.
  4. thrutch is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 12:51pm


     Style: Shorin Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm interested in seeing the violent crime stats from the UK, but I'm sadly also slightly retarded. Were they somewhere in this link?

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-total-crimes
  5. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 2:07pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrutch View Post
    I'm interested in seeing the violent crime stats from the UK, but I'm sadly also slightly retarded. Were they somewhere in this link?

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-total-crimes
    Yup.

    Hmmm... twice the US's Assault and Rape rates in the UK as well as half the number of total crimes vs the US with just over a fifth of the population. Wonder if that has anything to do with lack of firearms.
  6. thrutch is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 2:10pm


     Style: Shorin Ryu

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    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    Wonder if that has anything to do with lack of firearms.
    I very much doubt it, but where are the violent crime stats? - seriously, i can't find them
  7. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 2:33pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    Yup.

    Hmmm... twice the US's Assault and Rape rates in the UK as well as half the number of total crimes vs the US with just over a fifth of the population. Wonder if that has anything to do with lack of firearms.
    It's not just firearms their not allowed literally any weapons for defense. Hell about the only thing you can use in the U.K. Is MA but I would imagine they will outlaw that eventually too.
  8. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 3:04pm


     

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    There is something about this debate I just don't understand: prohibition of alcohol didn't work, it caused criminal organizations to pop up all over the place and caused more problems than it solved. Prohibition of drugs is currently not working, it is causing criminal organizations to pop up and is destroying Mexico. So how in the name of the word **** would anyone think a prohibition of guns would work??
    Last edited by Bneterasedmynam; 12/23/2011 3:05pm at . Reason: Typingisnotmyfriend
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 6:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    I am very liberal, I support gun ownership, and I also support more people of all ages and socioeconomic classes being shot and killed. Unfortunately, the US is no longer the land of equal opportunity.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

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  10. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 8:21pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    I am very liberal, I support gun ownership, and I also support more people of all ages and socioeconomic classes being shot and killed. Unfortunately, the US is no longer the land of equal opportunity.
    No longer? When was the supposed "golden age"?

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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