Reactionary gap for knife

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 12/19/2011 7:10pm

This is for all my LEO brothers, security guards, and bouncers out there.

So I have a bunch of family and friends in Law Enforcement. When ever I try to talk empty hand techniques with them I always get the same stupid cop-out(no pun intended). Specifically the scenario of what would you do if you someone pulls a knife on you? I always get the answer, "I would shoot them." And then I ask what if you don't have time. They avoid the question. So the guy I train stick with sent me this video after we had this same discussion.

The video pretty much tells the story. Most of the time on the street you don't see cops using a 21 foot reactionary gap. Pretty hard to question someone at that distance. The thing I wanted to point out is at 0:43 in the video they say that at close distance against a knife, the only option is empty hand tactics. This alone should be enough to get you to at least train some knife stuff occasionally.

Whether it is the pat, wrap, and attack; two on one; x block or what ever. Just do some situational training with this every once in a while.

I personally have not been attacked with a knife. I have been attacked with a cane though. Luckily I have trained defense for that before.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 12/19/2011 8:01pm

Keep talking about Reactionary Gaps and you're gonna get Tripp over hear going on about Ann Coulter again

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 12/19/2011 8:10pm

Ha! My bad! Well, Tripp is welcome, but he hasn't been around for a while.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 12/19/2011 8:15pm

Why is it that the policeman is only capable of stepping, to the side, when he has his weapon drawn at 10 feet and not when he has his weapon undrawn at 10 feet?

I agree with the overall thrust of the video, but when it starts discussing the 10 feet + scenario it seems to ignore that fact that the policeman can step out of the direct line of attack.

Naturally this is difficult to impossible at less than 10 feet and in an enclosed space such as in the first examples basically impossible.

However, in the latter examples at 10 feet + the policeman seems to only be able to move out of the direct line if he has his hand on his weapon, otherwise he's apparently unable to step to the side.

Of course shock and surprise play a factor and regardless of the distance a policeman may freeze and not draw, but it seems silly to make a deal out of the distance and then show two scenarios at the same distance where in one the policeman is stationary and in the second he is able to move.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 12/19/2011 8:31pm

Well, I think they were just trying to illustrate the point. Plus they were pressed on time, as this was a training video. But I'm more looking at the 5-6 foot range. This is where cops spend the majority of their time interviewing people.

To me if you are in the 10 foot range, you may as well have your gun out because you have some suspicion that something is going on. But there are a lot of issues that come in to play there like using your vehicle or their vehicle for cover. Or maintaining control of the person by making them face away from you and ordering them into certain stances.

At the 5-6 foot range, the "oh ****" factor is a lot higher, so going for a side arm should be drilled out of the reaction. Empty hand techniques should be automatic.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 12/20/2011 6:36am

The main thing I got from that video is Inosanto's preferred cop-stabbing technique of concealing the knife draw by presenting his ID.

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 12/20/2011 7:23am

"Surviving Edged Weapons Attack" - a classic video.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 12/20/2011 7:47am

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

The main thing I got from that video is Inosanto's preferred cop-stabbing technique of concealing the knife draw by presenting his ID.

Yeah, that's a good eye opener. That is why a lot of people won't let people pull out their own wallets when they are being questioned. Cops get a lot of **** sometimes for making people put their hands on the car, or cuffing people for "safety" reasons. But when you figure that all these possibilities are going through your head, it makes a lot more since.

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 12/20/2011 7:56am

Dont really like the reactionary gap so much. It puts the gun users at the idea that they will always have attackers at 21 odd feet.

It was designed to put perspective into the debate but seems to have a habit of making people draw a bit faster beat the 21 feet and feel safe.

Stabbing should happen at stabbing range which is pretty bloody close.

That video also mentions using a physical barrier which I like.

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 12/20/2011 11:27am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Why is it that the policeman is only capable of stepping, to the side, when he has his weapon drawn at 10 feet and not when he has his weapon undrawn at 10 feet?

I agree with the overall thrust of the video, but when it starts discussing the 10 feet + scenario it seems to ignore that fact that the policeman can step out of the direct line of attack.

Naturally this is difficult to impossible at less than 10 feet and in an enclosed space such as in the first examples basically impossible.

However, in the latter examples at 10 feet + the policeman seems to only be able to move out of the direct line if he has his hand on his weapon, otherwise he's apparently unable to step to the side.

Of course shock and surprise play a factor and regardless of the distance a policeman may freeze and not draw, but it seems silly to make a deal out of the distance and then show two scenarios at the same distance where in one the policeman is stationary and in the second he is able to move.

I've seen this done with policemen several times. They NEVER have the goddamn presence of mind to use evasive footwork unless you've specifically given instruction to do so beforehand. Everyone pipes up and backs straight up like a goddamn dear in headlights until you start drilling retreating at a 45 degree angle.