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  1. 100xobm is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 9:44pm


     Style: BJJ, formerly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    The most fundamental escape from under mount or side mount is the elbow escape. That is where you should start. Here's the no-gi variation. This is the best video I found after a 10 minute search. This gentlemen covers a few key points that some of the others I watched left out.




    Notice how he drops his hips to make the space to insert his knee. Another example of moving yourself instead of trying to move a resisting partner.
    I've noted those two different ideas with the head control for framing. Both shown here

    Kurt/Lemmy had the arm inside the head, to create pressure from the neck.

    JNP's vid shows pushing on the outside of the head, Demian Maia shows it this way also.

    Are there positives and negatives to each of these? Which is more effective? or is it more a attack whichever is the weaker angle at the time kinda thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Judoka_UK
    Judo is the PC to Sambo's Mac.
  2. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 10:06pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 100xobm View Post
    Are there positives and negatives to each of these? Which is more effective? or is it more a attack whichever is the weaker angle at the time kinda thing?
    They are both excellent techniques, and it is a case of "attack whichever is the weaker angle at the time kinda thing". In other words, there are positions where one of these techniques is the better answer in both cases.

    In fact, using them in an alternating manner would be a good example of one of the two step chains that Petter mentioned earlier.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  3. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 3:41am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If the guy is super tight with his side control you won't be able to frame inside ala the Kurt video. Also, doing so can sometimes open up a wrist-lock counter. To my mind the Maia version is more powerful, but you have to let him closer to do it and, if bodged badly, there's a far-side armbar opening.

    You can also, as jnp alluded to, do the Maia/outside of the head version in order to open space to get your hands inside. I do that a lot, works also against being cross-faced in the half-gaurd.
  4. 100xobm is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 4:19pm


     Style: BJJ, formerly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    If the guy is super tight with his side control you won't be able to frame inside ala the Kurt video. Also, doing so can sometimes open up a wrist-lock counter. To my mind the Maia version is more powerful, but you have to let him closer to do it and, if bodged badly, there's a far-side armbar opening.

    You can also, as jnp alluded to, do the Maia/outside of the head version in order to open space to get your hands inside. I do that a lot, works also against being cross-faced in the half-gaurd.
    Thank you fellas.

    Followup question:
    Much risk of the bad guy slipping his head around into an arm triangle on the maia version?

    EDIT: Bad guy? **** I'm tired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Judoka_UK
    Judo is the PC to Sambo's Mac.
  5. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 7:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The bad news is you either suck big time or work with people who know the value of a good pin. The good news is it seems, given your brief description, you're at least getting some halfway competent live instruction - thus, you'll get better with more time in.
    So, stop worrying about it. If you can't let it go, come to NYC and I'll introduce you to a tiny little old man Judoka who happens to have a world-class pin. He'll squash your anxiety over being flat on your back right out of you.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 12/16/2011 7:16pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  6. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 7:42pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    uhm was that directed at me ? i admit to sucking gleefully :D (i've only trained groundwork for about 10 months) the anxiety part is more or less "i'm not doing something thus i am losing" mentality for me

    by pinning in this do you mean tightly making sure there's no space for your opponent to pretty much do anything (including breathing in some uhm "slightly" bigger cases)

    i should've probably added that this was the latest thing i was working on before my sick leave from practice and i wanted mostly food for thought and ideas what to start working on when i get back to training instead of simply you know being still and healing up

    i am also flattered by your invitation and would take you up on it would i have moneys to fly halfway over the world (well almost)
  7. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 12:39pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, side control will for always suck. Its such an established position, because its solid and hard to escape. If the other guy is halfway decent at keeping side control, and that's all he's doing, you're likely not going to escape right now. If he is working for other options from the side control, that is the time to escape.

    that, or right before he establishes a crushing side control you gotta be gone already.
  8. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 2:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't let them control your head use your frames to prevent this (ie T-rex arms) side control becomes infinitely easier to escape.
  9. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 3:50pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well syphilis i tend to agree with you as i usually hope for dear life that once someone gets side control that someone will try to mount me and i make absolutely no resistance to people mounting me from side control as it feels to be a hundred times easier to escape

    now as to this controlling the head i meant to ask earlier what exactly do you mean by this, like do you mean someone getting an arm under your head ? pushing head to the side ? (i feel both of these somewhat categorize to head control but my feeling and reality are often 2 very different things)

    or did i completely miss the point and if so please explain :D

    goddamn i think im asking too many questions and not just doing enough practice (2 more weeks >.>)
  10. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 5:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenitys View Post
    now as to this controlling the head i meant to ask earlier what exactly do you mean by this, like do you mean someone getting an arm under your head ? pushing head to the side ? (i feel both of these somewhat categorize to head control but my feeling and reality are often 2 very different things)
    Exactly the crossface. For now focusing on blocking that arm from controlling your head. This will allow you to shrimp as well escape to your knees.
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