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  1. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 3:57am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    escaping side control

    i have a lot of trouble escaping from side control, i have been taught the snake both hands to underhooks buck up and twist away but i can't get this to work on anyone of equal or greater weight now should i try to focus on strengthening my arms (?) or am i just doing it wrong (or better yet any other escape that would require less strength to pull off)

    and then the uhm i think it's called scarf hold is also a subject of great annoyance to me as i pretty much can't do anything even remotely intelligent from it defensively (me on bottom)

    i used to wonder why Bas kept saying that he believes side control is the most dominant position, now i understand completely, mount seems almost trivial to escape compared to side control but then it may just be me and/or the guys at my gym all secretly specialize in side control and don't have a good mount dunno

    (i seem to notice a tendency to write walls of text i apologize for this and all possible brain aneurysms my incompetency may cause thank you ^^) edit. i should probably add that i mean no-gi grappling
    Last edited by Zenitys; 12/15/2011 4:05am at .
  2. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 5:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You shouldn't be trying to push them off with your arms, you need to bridge to create the space then use you forearms to frame and keep the space. Understand also that doing one escape isn't going to work unless they're clueless, you need to rapidly chain escape, if you only know two then alternate them like a mad man.

    Also, on bridging properly:


    Is the scarf hold that's bothering you like this:

    Or like this:
    ?

    The most important thing in either case is to get your near elbow (i.e. the right one in the bottom picture) to the floor and prevent him from controlling that arm.
  3. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 6:06am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so i should pretty much try to "shrimp away" from the dreadfull scarf ? now i start understanding why we drill that shrimping movement so freaking much, i guess i just missed the explanation as to why.

    that chaining like a mad man is what i use for most other positional sweeps/escapes. however i think i only know 1 way to escape side control so i guess that's where my problem may lie (altho that video you linked shows a different escape so im going to memorize that and ask someone to drill it with once i get back to the gym)

    thanks alot for your post it was most informative
  4. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 10:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kurt Osiander's words here helped me, lol.
    (Adult language)
  5. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 10:59am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The most fundamental escape from under mount or side mount is the elbow escape. That is where you should start. Here's the no-gi variation. This is the best video I found after a 10 minute search. This gentlemen covers a few key points that some of the others I watched left out.




    Notice how he drops his hips to make the space to insert his knee. Another example of moving yourself instead of trying to move a resisting partner.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  6. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 12:14pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ChengPengFi that was weirdly the most clearly worded explanation ever and i think i actually understood perfectly and again *ka-ching yet another escape to drill*

    Jnp thank you for that also something different and also very simple looking (don't worry i'll overcomplicate it for myself at some point after exhaustion ^^)

    thanks to you both for 2 very informative vids i'll be adding to my little green book of "drill this or die"
  7. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 12:39pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Understand also that doing one escape isn't going to work unless they're clueless, you need to rapidly chain escape, if you only know two then alternate them like a mad man.
    To me, this is one of the most general principles of all. Whether I try to attack or escape, and regardless of position, I only feel comfortable if I have at least two techniques to attempt, which are moreover complementary in that the one sets up the other. E.g., bridge to turn into side control for guard replacement -> they push away to flatten me -> running escape. Dive for deep half guard for a sweep -> they create distance to my head -> I go with that momentum and allow space to be opened, giving me room to slide my legs in to replace guard. I attack cross choke from mount -> they bring arms up to defend the choke -> I attack the arms. I move forward for a throw like o-uchi gari -> they give me forward pressure -> I turn for a throw in the other direction like uchimata or harai goshi. And, of course, in each case, if the second option is stymied, I can switch back to the first, and so on ad nauseam.

    (I actually suck and fail at some of the above combinations, but it’s only when I feel that I have at least two techniques from a position, which feed into each other like that by using opposite momentums, that I start to feel confident about that position.)
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 4:47pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A big thing that helps is never letting the guy control your head to get the shoulder of justice. If your opponent does it properly it is almost impossible to bridge into him.

    Another thing I like is to bridge into him not straight up, as I find it gives me much more power and gives me a better hip escape to re-guard.
  9. Zenitys is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 6:31pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thats a nice little adjustment to make as i've usually bridged straight up (sometimes even away from the guy) altho i should probably work on getting more than 1 escape into my comfort zone first

    btw petter i understood the concept and î honestly tried to go through that chain in my head (up until the japanese lingo which i am ignorant to) which made my head hurt
  10. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2011 6:42pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenitys View Post
    btw petter i understood the concept and î honestly tried to go through that chain in my head (up until the japanese lingo which i am ignorant to) which made my head hurt
    Just to make sure we’re on the same page—it’s not intended to be one chain; each sentence is just a two-step combo (that is, my action -> their reaction -> my counter to their reaction; if they counter my counter I go back to the beginning).

    I tend to have particular success with the half guard stuff, alternating between going deep for sweeps and creating space for guard replacement. The “Japanese lingo” is just a simple judo combination—get the opponent moving one way with a backward throw (o-uchi gari = major inside reap), and if he resists that, use his resisting force to go the other way with a forward throw (harai goshi = sweeping hip throw, or uchimata = inside thigh throw).

    It’s really just a matter of not getting stuck. Attempt one thing and your opponent will try to counter it, typically by feeding energy in some direction that counters your move. If you can capitalise on that energy, you can always keep doing something.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
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