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  1. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 1:08pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Brock had his rise (Min Soo Kim), uncertainty (Mir I), triumphs (Herring, Mir II, Randy), decline (Carwin) and exposure as incomplete (Cain, Overeem). He had the short attention span version, the mma ADHD version if you will, of a lofty career. Yes he fought good guys in there, but he couldn't hang in the long run because.......

    Diverticulitis while in a career where he was cutting 25+ lbs of water weight to compete in a division below his (Should have fought Bob Sapp in a whirling turtle battle). hmmmmm diamond turds for the loss?

    He was using cutting to fight smaller guys. It bit him in the ass. A lot of fighters do this. He did it too much. Overeem suffered for his trying to stay at 205lbs in spite of being a large framed 6'5" guy who had to train all the time. His chin questions are from the rake years. That man can take a punch now.

    They should reweigh these guys just before they fight. All that cut and rehydrate up a weight class or two is tired. CW, SHW, we need these divisions at some point.

    If fighters want to dehydrate themselves to fight in divisions below their walking around weight, let them fight dehydrated, as that's what got them in there, in that bracket.

    Have the main weigh ins, and then cageside prior to the match, have them get on the scales again, and if they don't make weight, cut half their purse.
  2. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 1:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Brock had his rise (Min Soo Kim), uncertainty (Mir I), triumphs (Herring, Mir II, Randy), decline (Carwin) and exposure as incomplete (Cain, Overeem). He had the short attention span version, the mma ADHD version if you will, of a lofty career. Yes he fought good guys in there, but he couldn't hang in the long run because.......

    Diverticulitis while in a career where he was cutting 25+ lbs of water weight to compete in a division below his (Should have fought Bob Sapp in a whirling turtle battle). hmmmmm diamond turds for the loss?

    He was using cutting to fight smaller guys. It bit him in the ass. A lot of fighters do this. He did it too much. Overeem suffered for his trying to stay at 205lbs in spite of being a large framed 6'5" guy who had to train all the time. His chin questions are from the rake years. That man can take a punch now.

    They should reweigh these guys just before they fight. All that cut and rehydrate up a weight class or two is tired. CW, SHW, we need these divisions at some point.

    If fighters want to dehydrate themselves to fight in divisions below their walking around weight, let them fight dehydrated, as that's what got them in there, in that bracket.

    Have the main weigh ins, and then cageside prior to the match, have them get on the scales again, and if they don't make weight, cut half their purse.
    The weight thing is never going to happen and it's probably not a good idea anyway.

    If you did that, some fighters would still cut to make weight but they wouldn't have time to rehydrate. Then you'd end up with a dead fighter here and there. Bad for the sport.

    Cruiserweight and Super Heavyweight divisions are a bad idea too. There would be almost nobody in the SHW division and CW would detract from the HW division and HWs are always going to be the #1 draw.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 1:34pm

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    I don't think it's that crazy to wish the fighters were actually in that weight class, at fight time. It's an end run around the weight class rules, that everyone's in on, but I don't have to like it.
  4. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 1:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    The weight thing is never going to happen and it's probably not a good idea anyway.

    If you did that, some fighters would still cut to make weight but they wouldn't have time to rehydrate. Then you'd end up with a dead fighter here and there. Bad for the sport.
    The NCAA did just that to avoid more deaths.

    In 1997, three collegiate wrestlers died within a six-week span because of extreme weight-loss techniques. All three were trying to lose weight by riding stationary bikes and refusing liquids; two were wearing rubber suits. As a result, the NCAA changed its rules regarding weigh-ins. Previously wrestlers weighed in the day before the tournament started; now they weigh in just a few hours before competing, giving them less time to recover from any extreme dehydration methods they may have taken to make weight.
    http://cornellsun.com/node/26236
  5. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 2:17pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    The NCAA did just that to avoid more deaths.



    http://cornellsun.com/node/26236
    I'm aware of that but I stand by my statement. There will be knuckleheads out there who fight dehydrated if they have to weigh in at fight time.

    To Bob's point - I agree with you in principle. It's a moot point though. It'll never happen, and here's why. The UFC doesn't really give a **** about fighters weight at fight time. They definitely don't care enough to have a second weigh-in that isn't mandated by the athletic commissions.

    As long as they can get away with it, the weigh-ins will be the day before because they're a separate event that generates a ton of PPV buys.
  6. Goju - Joe is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 3:05pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    He shouldn't use surgeries as an excuse either. All fighters get injured. All fighters have surgeries. It's part of the game and it goes with the territory. You come back when you're better and if you lose it's because the other man was a better fighter, not because you had surgery.

    They don't put asterisks beside wins and losses on a fighter's record when they had a recent injury.
    There's injuries - oh I sprained my self, and then there's injuries - oh I shattered my leg in several spots and Diverticulitis isn't an "injury" something you do to yourself in the course of training, it's a serious medical condition.

    he probably should have retired.

    It's silly to compare tearing an ACL to this or to Mir's injury.

    FYI I am a Frank Mir fan because he always tries to improve.
  7. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 3:13pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - Joe View Post
    There's injuries - oh I sprained my self, and then there's injuries - oh I shattered my leg in several spots and Diverticulitis isn't an "injury" something you do to yourself in the course of training, it's a serious medical condition.

    he probably should have retired.

    It's silly to compare tearing an ACL to this or to Mir's injury.

    FYI I am a Frank Mir fan because he always tries to improve.
    Why would you insist Lesnar sucks because of his disease when he and his whole camp said he was 100% and he said himself he thought Overeem broke a rib?
  8. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 3:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    I'm aware of that but I stand by my statement. There will be knuckleheads out there who fight dehydrated if they have to weigh in at fight time.

    To Bob's point - I agree with you in principle. It's a moot point though. It'll never happen, and here's why. The UFC doesn't really give a **** about fighters weight at fight time. They definitely don't care enough to have a second weigh-in that isn't mandated by the athletic commissions.

    As long as they can get away with it, the weigh-ins will be the day before because they're a separate event that generates a ton of PPV buys.
    Have you ever cut weight?
    It's really awful imo, and your assertion makes me think you've never done it if you think people will still cut as much knowing they have to compete in a couple hours.
  9. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 3:21pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can only think of two reasons to excuse a fighter when he himself is offering no excuses: one is either a fan who wants to preserve the guy's reputation, or someone who wants to demean the success of the guy's opponent. That is my opinion, at least. But really, what other reason is there? It's not like it is something we can conclusively debate one way or another.

    Edit: I wrestled in highschool, and I cut weight for it. The motivation for cutting weight is different, but competitive people grab any advantage possible. If you moved the weigh-in to a couple of hours before the fight, people would cut less weight--but they would still err on the side of cutting higher amounts. And with time and experience, the margins would shift and people would know how much they could optimally cut and rehydrate based on the new time constraints. Anything aside from weighing in right before the event is an arbitrary re-hydration period.
    Last edited by CNagy; 1/03/2012 3:26pm at .
  10. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/03/2012 3:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Have you ever cut weight?
    It's really awful imo, and your assertion makes me think you've never done it if you think people will still cut as much knowing they have to compete in a couple hours.
    Honestly, I have not and I won't say I have just to make a point.

    I don't think people would cut as much. I think it would still happen though.

    I am certain though that it is a moot point and the change will never happen because money is always more important than fairness.
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