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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 6:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is also a peekaboo guard, albeit of the Archie Moore 'dracula style' variation. The attributes which make the Cus D'Amato style you are used to seeing pretty much will take you a long way towards making this work, too. If you can make it work, it will work well for kicking, too. The variation is more angled to one side, however, making it much harder to implement and also have an effective shoot & takedown defense.

    You can do some damn fine hotdogging from this variation, though.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
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    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
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  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2011 7:27pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I'd like to single this one out if you do not mind.
    Is a Thai clinch one of your go to's to prevent a takedown in that situation, or is pummeling, over/under etc better?
    No. Not stop a takedown but it is my go to for turning my opponent and getting myself off the ropes.
  3. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 12:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Chun? You're an idiot.
    I was talking to Ice Hole, who was going on about Bong Sau. Way to pointlessly be a dick, though!
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 9:46pm

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     Style: 無木兔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    I was talking to Ice Hole, who was going on about Bong Sau. Way to pointlessly be a dick, though!
    I thought he was funny. You insulted his lineage (unintentionally) when you compared it to Chun (and I think that picture I grabbed off Google was a Chunner, so my bad for the confusion).

    Bong sau is not exclusive to Chun, it's common in a few CMA styles and at least in Hung ga, it's one of a few major bridging methods. It's not a "guard" in the boxing sense when used in CMA. There are several variations that I know of but the one in the image is essentially an inside forearm block that would be immediately followed with a counter with the other arm.

    It's not really the same thing as the Philly Shell, it looks similar to it but only if you took a snap shot in time, and my (noob) question to Chen was is there anything really similar with the body movement between the two. I guess there is as far as the arms and waist movement are concerned...but that's about it.

    You would not stay in the "bong sau" position while fighting at all, in fact as people have pointed out with the boxing discussion, you'd be hit pretty easily by someone able to angle and hit you from the side or back.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 12/17/2011 9:54pm at .
  5. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 10:22pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Hole View Post
    It's not really the same thing as the Philly Shell, it looks similar to it but only if you took a snap shot in time, and my (noob) question to Chen was is there anything really similar with the body movement between the two. I guess there is as far as the arms and waist movement are concerned...but that's about it.
    Grumble, so why are we discussing it if it's "not rally the same thing as Philly Shell"? You should know better than most how I'm a stickler for staying on topic in the technique section.

    Stay on topic people, and keep the flaming to a minimum. There should be no posts in the training areas that do not mention the thread topic. Right, PSB?

    /Grumble.

    Edit: And don't apologize or even respond to this post. That would be yet another off topic post in the technique section.
    Last edited by jnp; 12/17/2011 10:34pm at . Reason: corrected typo
    Shut the hell up and train.
  6. brclry is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 1:26pm


     Style: JP Jeet June Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Noob here, feel free to talk crap.
    Permalost said that the guy he saw using the philly shell was intercepting attacks with a side kick, and Tom Kagen mentioned a more bladed stance to make the style more effective with expanded sparring rules. Not to tap any nerves, but the stance starts to look more and more like JKD's Bai Jong. The lead fist is held in front of the body, knuckles on center line, pointed at the other persons head, and the rear hand is slightly off center on the cheek, or in front of the face off center ready to parry, those are really the only differences as far as hand placement goes. Defence is similar, shoulder roll, Elbow block (Bong Sau), standard hook cover, but the lead hand is in a more usefull position, ready to fire a jab, or stuff a take down. Any thoughts?
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 1:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by brclry View Post
    Noob here, feel free to talk crap.
    Permalost said that the guy he saw using the philly shell was intercepting attacks with a side kick, and Tom Kagen mentioned a more bladed stance to make the style more effective with expanded sparring rules. Not to tap any nerves, but the stance starts to look more and more like JKD's Bai Jong. The lead fist is held in front of the body, knuckles on center line, pointed at the other persons head, and the rear hand is slightly off center on the cheek, or in front of the face off center ready to parry, those are really the only differences as far as hand placement goes. Defence is similar, shoulder roll, Elbow block (Bong Sau), standard hook cover, but the lead hand is in a more usefull position, ready to fire a jab, or stuff a take down. Any thoughts?
    I prefer the stance you're describing, but if you're keeping your lead hand upright and pointed at your opponent's face, that's not exactly a philly shell. The shell is where the lead hand is low and across, like this:




  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 4:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by brclry View Post
    ... and Tom Kagen mentioned a more bladed stance to make the style more effective with expanded sparring rules. Not to tap any nerves, but the stance starts to look more and more like JKD's Bai Jong.
    No, I didn't mention that. You did. I specifically said a sideways stance makes it harder to implement under less stringent rules.

    The stance of which you speak is a staple of Kempo Karate, not JKD. Regardless, JKD puts the power side forward. The Philly Shell has the weak side forward. And, a standing guard in CMA is correctly called 'JongSao', not 'BaiJong'. You JKD guys are really good at taking from an art what you think works and proceeding to **** it up beyond all recognition.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. Prone is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 4:09pm


     Style: BJJ / Kyokushinkai Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    step 1- be mayweather

    not sure about step 2
    ^This actually.
  10. td82394 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2012 5:58pm


     Style: Wrestling/Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Use what works for you. That being said, I like the philly shell, because you only need one hand and your shoulder to block. The sideways stance is good for quick movement in and out. In kickboxing, it's harder to make work because you can't check leg kicks quite as well, but you can move out of the way, or even better, you can move in and stuff the kick before it develops full power and counter. In MMA, you can stuff the double from there, in fact, it's easier, because he's already eating your hips. But singles become harder to defend.
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