Thread: Crab/Philly Shell?
12/16/2011 3:47pm, #31
Not any more.
Is this about me now?
Here's a pretty complete bio.
Late '70's: Childhood Judo, 2 yrs(?)
'80's: HS wrestling, 2 yrs. fencing, archery 1 yr ea.
Riflery 4 yrs., swimming and water-polo 2 yrs each.
Soccer 5 yrs
90's started kung fu, a group sparred 3-4x/week varying contact from around '95 through '07. Some days it was straight boxing, some days it was more Greco stuff, some days pretty much san-da rules. Hawaii has always been pretty open to cross-training and we had guys from a bunch of different backgrounds.
I entered pretty much whatever i could find during this period, from Karate air sparring to the early FutureBrawl held at Gussie Lamour's.
I was mediocre then and am much worse now.
Striking training only makes up about 10% of what i do now, gi BJJ takes up the rest.
Throughout all of this i've been surfing for 30 years+ in Hawaii and experienced more violence in that arena than all of the above combined.
It's part of the culture, accepted and endorsed by those in power.
The guy stomping the board at the end is a lifeguard and BJJ blackbelt.
That said can't we engage in a little discussion without all of the fallacies creeping up?
My vision is being clouded by black swans, red herrings and the like.
12/16/2011 3:56pm, #32
Note, I wasn't questioning your integrity, my point is simply that if you haven't had formal boxing training then you shouldn't really be attempting to use advanced boxing techniques - especially seeing as your style field mentions nothing of boxing or MMA.
I still don't see its use in MMA, even from a theoretical perspective. The evasive effects of the philly shell are based on boxers not being allowed to hit the back, and you're protecting your front by rolling and standing side on. By reducing the takedown risk by being less side on you reduce the ability for your shoulder to cover you from the front and protect your face."The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
12/16/2011 3:56pm, #33
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- San Diego
- street paddleboarding
A guy I used to train with was the head of his highschool's boxing club in Idaho. He fought from the Philly Shell position, and also threw really quick side kicks from there. In theory I could've just leg kicked him but he was good at countering before my kick was all the way out there. Is it hard to believe that a boxer would use such a guard? I mean, it's a boxing guard after all.
12/16/2011 4:16pm, #34
The KF group included formally trained boxers, my dad and grandfater used to beat the **** out of us with their "Military boxing workouts", lol, and i've been an observant fan since before Tyson so i'm not totally clueless about the sweet science.
It's the same rationale used all the time here when evaluating stuff.
I still don't see its use in MMA, even from a theoretical perspective. The evasive effects of the philly shell are based on boxers not being allowed to hit the back, and you're protecting your front by rolling and standing side on. By reducing the takedown risk by being less side on you reduce the ability for your shoulder to cover you from the front and protect your face.
Remember the moments before this?
Last edited by ChenPengFi; 12/16/2011 4:18pm at . Reason: added pic
12/16/2011 4:36pm, #35
Yeah but even right there on the ropes (in MMA) he would be better served by having both hands up in a position to grab a thai clinch or pummel and make space. There are way too many variable and less rules in MMA to make that more than a novelty postion for someone who is super confident in their footwork and boxing ability.
12/16/2011 4:57pm, #36
Fine, let's even say it was Vale Tudo and the butt was legal.
You say pummel but his hand is already there in that shot, pummeling is easier from there than both hands high.
The neck/collar or a whizzer on Floyds right might be there depending where the pressure went.
If Ortiz did the headbutt then changed levels and Floyd was all upright with his hands up, he'd be fucked.
With his hand down like that i'd say he stands a better chance and has more options, in the hypothetical vale tudo match where they both can grapple.
Pretty much any modern mma card has someone with their back to the cage trying to pummel an arm in at some point.
Seems reasonable that it'd be easier if it was already there.
12/16/2011 5:01pm, #37
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Freestyle rasslin
I dont use this all the time butone positive thing I've found is the success I have with my jab hand. I spose this is because people aren't as used to dealing with the different angle. It is harder for them to read and distinguish between lead uppercut/hook/jab/rip/Razor Ruddock Smash. But on the negative side, good head (and foot)movement and counterfighting ability is a must. A little bit of reach or height goes a long way too.
12/16/2011 5:05pm, #38
12/16/2011 5:08pm, #39
12/16/2011 5:19pm, #40
I'm not certain that the philly shell would actually put you in a better position for pummelling. Your arm is across your body. Plus, as I've been taught you want your underhook high to prevent your opponent pummelling back in, the philly shell would put your hands further from that point than a normal guard.
Dropping your hand a few inches from a peekaboo guard allows you to pummel quickly without giving up striking defence, and giving you the option to use the plum clinch; which isn't there with the philly shell."The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato