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Posted On:
9/29/2011 5:17pm -
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Posted On:
9/29/2011 5:31pm--
You're welcome.
No not really. I have thrown people with it, but its not one I throw with regularly in randori. I've been trying to dial it in a little bit lately to partner up with my naiscent Tai otoshi, because the O uchi doesn't help to set up the kenka yotsu situation that's ideal for Tai otoshi. -
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Posted On:
9/29/2011 7:47pm--
Nice work, I have to LOL at your hatred for the hikidashi drill, I love it. I agree that uke has to play his role (as usual), but I don't have that many problems getting uke to behave properly. If I do, I go to the "kick out" drill/version. Just depends on the individual usually.
I also use the oikomi and "kicking out" versions. Oikomi is usually saved for last, as it is the hardest to do, and the balance and feel are well developed if you have gotten the hikidashi versions down.
Kouchi Gari is an incredibly versatile throw, that does not expose tori to strong counters, and sets up all sorts of other throws.
Have you tried it to combine with lapel side STKA? If you catch it right uke goes over so hard and fast it will surprise you.
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Posted On:
9/29/2011 8:12pm--
I really hate it, the only thing I hate more than it, is doing uchikomi whilst standing on a crash mat.
Mate, if I had a quid for every time I've had to deal with a spastic uke whilst doing this, well I'd be close to being able to sort out our budget deficit single handed.
You think so?
Oikomi is the basic version I learnt, in fact my coach only ever taught the oikomi version. The first time I saw the hikidashi was outside of my uni club.
So for me all other versions are 'non-standard', that pesky NA influence coming through again, lol!
No I haven't, but I've long had a chub on for this combo.
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Posted On:
9/30/2011 9:41pm--
LOL,hey, to each his own. You've really had to do uchikomi standing on a crash pad? That's just plain wrong.
[QUOTE=judoka_uk;2610634Mate, if I had a quid for every time I've had to deal with a spastic uke whilst doing this, well I'd be close to being able to sort out our budget deficit single handed.[/quote]
No doubt, but I rule with an iron fist and spastic uke soon fall into line. However, I'm not teaching a hungover mob of college students either.
[QUOTE=judoka_uk;2610634You think so?[/quote]
Not sure what I think so about, other than Kouchi Gari is a great throw that all judoka should be proficient at.
[QUOTE=judoka_uk;2610634Oikomi is the basic version I learnt, in fact my coach only ever taught the oikomi version. The first time I saw the hikidashi was outside of my uni club. [/quote]
I can see that happening. I first learned the hikidashi version, then transformed to the oikomi in the space of a year or less. I'd basically do the Okano hip twitch/t-step and load move and if they reacted to the back (fearful of seoi nage) I'd do Kouchi Gari, often with spectacular results. In fact we worked on it last night with good results. Student has very strong hikidashi version. Also worked on a ken ken version of kouchi for grins.
It's all good, either method works if a good progression is used.
[QUOTE=judoka_uk;2610634So for me all other versions are 'non-standard', that pesky NA influence coming through again, lol![/quote]
We should all be so lucky to have the NA influence. All I have is 4 of his books I just unearthed after a spelunking expedition in the boxes of books in storage. NA Olympic Groundwork/Olympic Throwing/Grips and Tai Otoshi
That, my friend, is true Judo porn!
Originally Posted by judoka_uk;2610634No I haven't, but I've long had a chub on for this combo.
[video=youtube;4uY29Vrv27s
Our japanese coach (from Tokai and sempai/friend to Suzuki) when I was at Idaho State University showed us a video of that one. We practiced it a lot for a while. Not much success, though, for obvious reasons!Falling for Judo since 1980 -
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Posted On:
10/01/2011 8:55am--
Yes, I have been subjected to it on a few occasions. Its really fucking stupid. As, you can imagine, it basic makes it impossible to do the footwork for anything properly.
Oikomi being harder to learn than hikidashi.
I haven't really given much thought to teaching Ko uchi, because I tend to only ever teach throws I'm competent at and it isn't really one of them.
Sadly its only the influence none of the skill has managed to pass down the line....
Was thinking about that thing people say about being able to tell who taught you Judo by watching you. I don't know if anyone would be able to work it out, by watching my frog in a blender -Judo....
Suzuki is my age in that video. :(
If I ever have 1/10 of Suzuki's ability with my ashiwaza I'll die happy.
Btw tried the Ko uchi -Sasae thing this morning. Works ok Ko uchi- Sasae, but then again my Sasae is one of my strong throws. Wasn't working very well Sasae-Ko uchi, because I was getting too much movement from them off the Sasae.
Will have a further play with it, but I tend to only use throws in combination where I can throw dan grades for 10 with each individual technique of the combo. And I haven't thrown a dan grade with Ko uchi yet, will work on it. -
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Posted On:
10/01/2011 10:50pm--
I'm sure it's just what one is exposed to first. My idea on hikidashi is basically the preservation of momentum in forward direction-the basic debana for most throws noobs learn. So I stay consistent with hikidashi, then segue to oikomi once basic competence in hikidashi is gained.
On the other hand, with oikomi, it works better as a combination to forward throws and somewhat better if uke reacts to the rear after a forward throw attempt. I've seen very good progressions for oikomi for forward throws, and this goes well with oikomi for kouchi/ouchi gari.
You don't see many heavy weights doing Kouchi Gari, do you? I may be wrong, but I don't think it's that common. Suzuki and his sublime ashi waza aside! However, if you keep working on it you will eventually make it useful. Even if you don't, it's good training for coordination.I haven't really given much thought to teaching Ko uchi, because I tend to only ever teach throws I'm competent at and it isn't really one of them.
You are better off than if you have been doing Zen Judo, at least!Sadly its only the influence none of the skill has managed to pass down the line....
One couldn't tell by watching me, either, I feel your pain.Was thinking about that thing people say about being able to tell who taught you Judo by watching you. I don't know if anyone would be able to work it out, by watching my frog in a blender -Judo....
Try 1/100th and you'd be better than 99% of judoka.Suzuki is my age in that video. :(
If I ever have 1/10 of Suzuki's ability with my ashiwaza I'll die happy.
The Kouchi to STKA is the one I was thinking of, the other way I can see why it would be difficult. I'd think Osoto Gari or Seoi Nage from STKA to lapel side.Btw tried the Ko uchi -Sasae thing this morning. Works ok Ko uchi- Sasae, but then again my Sasae is one of my strong throws. Wasn't working very well Sasae-Ko uchi, because I was getting too much movement from them off the Sasae.
Will have a further play with it, but I tend to only use throws in combination where I can throw dan grades for 10 with each individual technique of the combo. And I haven't thrown a dan grade with Ko uchi yet, will work on it.
Don't worry about throwing them with the Kouchi, just give massive Oikomi kick/shove to drive the leg back, put that foot on the mat, and turn for the STKA, trying for chest contact.
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Posted On:
10/03/2011 1:09pm -
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Posted On:
10/03/2011 1:12pm--
That's my experience too, especially when doing static or moving nagekomi. Its very hard to do the Hikidashi version and most people are much more comfortable with Oikomi.
Tmenov springs to mind, but apart from him and Suzuki I can't think of anyone else.
You just generally don't see much 'subtle' ashiwaza like Ko uchi, De ashi, Okuri ashi in heavyweights, for obvious reasons, that the margin for error is small.
Booting someone in the leg, I can do!
Seoi nage, not so much.
Kick them in the leg and then Tai otoshi.



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Posted On:
9/29/2011 3:28pm
Style: Judo
Ko uchi gari