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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Short entry for now, will add later, but I would stipulate that unless you have FULL CONTACT experience sparring with the sticks, I would expect anything to translate at all. Actually hitting human beings is a prerequisite for being able to cross apply that knowledge

  2. #12
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure I understand what your are saying, selfcritical. Are you saying that you can't learn to apply stick to emptyhand unless you train full contact? And what do you consider full contact? Sticks only, gloves, helmets, padded sticks?

    One of my issues may be that I learned striking first before sticks, but I havent seen much carry over to what I have learned in Kickboxing, which is weird because most of my CMA, MMA, combatives, and karate all had similar striking as Kickboxing.

    The best thing for me has been footwork. So, eskrimador, when you train your striking do you do your strikes on pads, or bags? And does the strike origionate from the hip? Also is your shoulder raised up like a boxing punch with the chin down?

    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

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    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  3. #13
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll also parrot that stickfighting has helped my footwork. My CLF background taught me to have low, wide stances, and for stick (and knife) fighting, that's not really acceptable. Training in FMA has made me better at darting off in any direction, and using good angles.

    In reference to unarmed striking, I found FMA has helped my ability to land some of the long strikes in CLF.

  4. #14

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    The first thing I began to learn was double stick. While a lot of people say that this is the most difficult part of stick fighting, it REALLY helps tremendously when learning to use your fists. A double stick spar or a drill in general trains you to constantly attack and defend simultaneously. One hand should never be sitting still while the other hand does all the work.

    To answer your other question, I'll start in reverse. Having studied a few different styles over the years, I would relate throwing a punch (at least from what I understand of how this is supposed to work) very closely to what I found when I studied Isshin-Ryu or Ving Tsun. The idea is not to telegraph the punch as you throw it, so there is almost no visible shoulder movement, and to strike along the 'center line' with a vertical fist. The thinking here, and I've seen this in Ving Tsun and Isshin-Ryu is that the vertical fist cuts out a lot of the movement you would have to do to complete the traditional Karate Cork-Screw punch or the traditional boxing punch, and when I studied under my previous instructor, he often remarked that a person could throw three punches with a vertical fist in the time that it takes a person in a boxing or traditional karate stance to throw one. A lot of your power is coming from torquing your body behind your punch slightly, in addition to hitting at the center line which automatically causes you to stretch your shoulder forward and flex the chest muscles in. As for other strikes, that can get a little whacky. Since it's very common to use circular motions, we often use the second knuckle sort of like a 'tiger claw', and this is good for gunts (Nerve destruction along the arms), very deep penetrating jaw shots, attacks to the eyes, nose and ears. Depending on where your hand is, a 'back fist' is also an extremely easy move to pull off on just about any part of the body. Think of the back fist as your horizontal slash, and you'll begin to see just about every place you can use it. All in all though, a lot of power comes from the torso and not the arm. We're always trying to 'whip' our arms at each other because speed = power.

    As for actual training of strikes, I very rarely use a sandbag. My instructor is well versed in many styles and it was at his recommendation that I began using the sandbag strapped to the wooden dummy (Think Ving Tsun) to begin to learn how to use short power (1 - 3 inch punches. It's very awkward at first, but I've seen him use short power principals during actual spars and flatten people. I'm not that far along yet.) For the most part, I either shadow box (I'm going for speed, so the bag isn't necessary), or spar.

    And here's the last part: We almost always start in a normal standing position. It's important to keep in mind that, unless you're in a tournament, it's very unlikely that you're going to square up into a fighting stance when someone assaults you. The idea is just to react.

    (Sorry for writing a novel)

  5. #15
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskrimador View Post
    And here's the last part: We almost always start in a normal standing position. It's important to keep in mind that, unless you're in a tournament, it's very unlikely that you're going to square up into a fighting stance when someone assaults you. The idea is just to react.
    I've seen lots of traditional martial arts start their techniques from a feet-together-arms-at-the-sides position, with the idea that you won't be in a fighting stance if someone assaults you. My opinion is that one is equally unlikely to be attacked in that formal position. If violence erupts with someone you're arguing with, you'll probably be in a defensive position, and if you're attacked out of nowhere but your spidey sense was tingling, you'll probably also be in a defensive position to figure out what's going on before proceeding. If your hands are at your sides and your feet are together, you've probably failed to register an incoming attack and are about to be walloped.

  6. #16

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    Well of course. In a tense situation you know when it's coming. You'll naturally be ready. It always seems like that first punch just comes out randomly, and because you were expecting it, you'll probably be ready whether or not you have your hands in your pockets or you've chosen to take a boxing stance or whatever. I'm just saying that it's very unlikely for someone to get into a Muay Thai stance or something before they throw their first punch. Most people just attack suddenly and you're fighting.

    (Just so that it's clear, I ALWAYS speak from the street fighting perspective because that's all I train for.)
    Last edited by Eskrimador; 12/13/2011 8:40pm at .

  7. #17
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Well, as far as stance goes, I was taught from day one in the academy to always speak with someone while standing in the ready stance. I've done that for years. It freaks out my wife sometimes, but it is ingrained and I see no reason to stop. So with that in mind, it would be counterintuitive for me to start out in a strait up stance.

    I was a little worried that you were going to say that your striking techniques would end up being like the chun. Is this normal for most FMA stick application? If so, I'll keep stick and striking separate. I feel that my kickboxing is far superior to chun besides the fact that I e been training in it for 10 years. No reason to change it now.

    I really was hoping that the application if stick would be a little closer and that there would be some cool things to add to my game. But to be honest, footwork is more than enough to make me happy with my stick training!

    Thanks for the dialogue!
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  8. #18

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    Oh yeah, you can definitely apply regular boxing or kick boxing technique. xD As I mentioned earlier, there's actually a guy running around here some place (some place associated with my school) who does a lot of that. He's a pro boxer, and a very good stick fighter. Anything he can do during a boxing match he's also done while stick fighting. When he throws his straight punches, and hooks, he uses the puno (the extra part of the handle that your hand isn't covering) to bash jaws and eyes and stuff as his hand passes, and the rest of it is really just a change in range. A straight punch to the gut is still a straight punch to the gut only you're aiming differently so that you hit the with the end of the stick. An uppercut is still an uppercut, only you turn your hand so that the tip of your stick hits them in the chin or the neck.

    Don't hesitate to experiment with your sticks. Do what you normally do with sticks in your hands and you'll begin to see exactly where all of this stuff comes in, and never hesitate to ask someone to walk through these things with you so that you can get an idea of exactly what you're doing.

    No problem! I had fun.

  9. #19
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks! Seems like I may have been thinking of things a little backward. I wasn't thinking of applying what I already know to sticks! I will definitely try this out and see how it works!
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good luck!

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