Can Wristlocks be trained with aliveness?

**RurikGreenwulf** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 10:53am

Wristlocks can be trained with aliveness? I mean with a fully resisting oponent fighting either with grappling or striking (or both) to avoid the wristlock.
Sorry for the stupid post is just curiosity Im a striker only, and my style is Kyokushin but I have a lot of friends who do aikido and McDojo Krotty (with frozen partner wristlock)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 11:00am

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12444

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 12:03pm

As an Aikidoka who cross-trains myself, I found Colin's quote from the thread IIF linked sums it up for me:

"Attempting to pull someones punch out of the air and apply a lock is useless, and generally counter-productive (I've tried it plenty of times).
I find that when MY punches are being blocked or trapped - or they are grabbing me - this is usually the most relevant usage for wrist locking."

Also, (and this comment will probably have RockApe spitting feathers), since taking up kali, I find the wristlocks I learned in Aikido useful for weapon retention too.

**Petter** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 12:08pm

I’ve been wristlocked many a time while rolling (BJJ). Of course, this is not the same as aikido-esque single-point-of-contact wristlocks, so you may judge the relevance accordingly; but they’re certainly wristlocks and certainly part of alive training.

**Petter** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 12:17pm

Come to think of it, the two kinds of wristlocks are so different that it may be less useful to think of them as variations of the same thing (different kinds of wristlock) than two different things altogether (that just happen to involve wrist pressure). The wristlocks you tend to see in aikido &c. aren’t just joint locks to the wrist, but also rely on that pressure for control. Call it control via wristlock.

The ones I’ve fallen victim to aren’t like that at all¹—they’ve been situations where ordinary principles of BJJ control via multiple points of contact and so on were applied to setup an attack on a joint, which happened to be the wrist. This has nothing to do with control via wristlock; the wristlock relies on the control being established, position before submission. I think a good case could be made that this is a separate category. (If so, it’s not really clear whether my posts are relevant to the thread, but I promise I’m not actually trying to derail…)

¹ Possible exception: Standing wristlock on hand grabbing lapel too low by collapsing it against one’s own chest, a very opportunistic attack. Still, that does use at least one more point of contact for control (both hands to opponent’s elbow).

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 12:33pm

Originally Posted by Petter

...control via multiple points of contact and so on were applied to setup an attack on a joint, which happened to be the wrist
... the wristlock relies on the control being established, position before submission

I think this is how it ought to be in Aikido.

A wrist lock should be icing on a cake you've already baked.

**DCS** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 12:50pm

I kotegaeshied a guy in subgrapplin' (standing). It was loltastic.

**daishi** · Posted On: 12/10/2011 8:40pm

Wrist locks vs resistance.

striking: good luck with that. The only way I've gotten those off, and not consistently, has been with some kind of trickery or stragtegery to interrupt the attack (maybe a body block/check or some such thing).

Grabbing. This is fine, you have to practice it though. Dealing with the guy fisting up and curling his arm in can be overcome. When guy starts moving around and stuff it gets more complicated. Its real hard to force, you have to be quite aggressive to get it done. In reality though, things like this are matters of opportunity. Pulling off a wrist lock in a standing grapple isn't much harder than O Goshi. At least in my opinion. We actually specifically train some aikido wristlocks in ground grappling class. It was fun surprising people with them, but now everyone expects it during randori...so less often successful.