When should you stop lifting?

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 12/11/2011 3:13pm

Originally Posted by IsThisRight?

As far as application in martial arts (sport or otherwise), how do you know when you should stop lifting for strength gains

Never.

Originally Posted by IsThisRight?

...and work more on maintenance or work more on explosive lifts like cleans and snatches or plyometric exercises?

Never stop.

Also: LOL @ asking these questions given your current regimen and totals.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 12/11/2011 3:15pm

Originally Posted by PerseusStoned

Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.

If you can press your bodyweight over your head within a year, and weigh more than 75kg, then you're a fucking caveman; let alone squatting 2xbodyweight.

A year? You're fucking stoned mate.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 12/17/2011 1:25pm

Originally Posted by PerseusStoned

I've been training for 4 months and am 80% there (granted its harder the further you go). My progress is a little slower then the average person on Starting Strength as far as I know. I mean don't get me wrong, its extremely strong compared to the average person, but as far as the professionals go it really is the bare minimum.

Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

exrx.net

You either

a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

or

b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 12/17/2011 5:17pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

exrx.net

You either

a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

or

b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.

This.

I'm naturally stocky and progressed very quickly on the stronglifts program, and it still took me well over a year to get a 1xbw press.

Of course it's possible you're simply the next hercules, but I find it hard to believe you'd get there that quickly.

**Coeloptera** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 8:10am

Originally Posted by Lindz

And totally meaningless. It's much easier for a lighter athlete to lift bodyweight multiples than a heavy one. There's some kind of diminishing returns.

Damn right. Little guys who weigh 150lbs can crank out pullups far faster and in greater numbers than I can at 220lbs. While I can bench about 250lbs at this point, a friend at 150lbs is just not capable of it. Moving your own weight around is a somewhat different game than just moving large objects. My small friend was a Marine and he obviously made the cut despite having less raw strength.

I'm currently a solid 80lbs below my bodyweight for standing overhead press with free weights if I want to be safe and do clean reps. And it's a damn slow crawl to improve that lately. MMAMickey is right. If I could do my weight, I'd be a beast. This is 3 years in from an admittedly somewhat weak-for-my-size start.

But multiples of body weight is a meaningless benchmark taken by itself. Smaller people will be able to do greater percentages, square-cube law and all. Look at it this way: the monsters that can bench around 800-900lbs? Strongest humans in the world? That's only around 2.25 to 3 times their body weight.

- Coeloptera

**mrh80** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 6:13pm

There are a few misconceptions on this thread. Firstly to the guy who has reached 80% of his weight goal, well done but getting the next 20% is damn hard. I am maybe 90-95% of my goals and fighting hard to get there but progress is a lot slower. Generally, the more advanced you are the harder it is to gain in general. Talk about the bodyweight equivalent standards posted as being easy once you have actually done them.

The assumption that bodyweight work does not carry over to weights is not true and have proved this on my self. Yes, endless pushups and pullups dont build max strength. As an example work up to a controlled full range handstand pushup (hands to shoulders) and see if you can overhead press your bodyweight equivalent. Provided you have worked the rest of your body, especially your core you probably will.

The fact that big guys find it hard to do things like pullups is a good reason to do them, don't you think. Also, "only 2.25 to 3 x bodyweight", LOL.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 6:45pm

Originally Posted by mrh80

As an example work up to a controlled full range handstand pushup (hands to shoulders) and see if you can overhead press your bodyweight equivalent. Provided you have worked the rest of your body, especially your core you probably will.

Are you doing the overhead pushup freestanding between two stands so that you can go low enough for your hands to be in line with your shoulders?

If not, then you're not actually pressing your full bodyweight.

**alex** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 7:03pm

im pretty sure if you can press your own BW above your head after a year you dont need to worry about learning to fight

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 7:18pm

Originally Posted by MMAMickey

Are you doing the overhead pushup freestanding between two stands so that you can go low enough for your hands to be in line with your shoulders?

If not, then you're not actually pressing your full bodyweight.

I'd disagree, yes you are pressing your full bodyweight just not through a full range of motion. Kind of like the guys at my gym that jump in the squat rack (which is rare b/c most favor leg press machine) load up 4 45 plates and squat to 45 deg. or less.

Most people who can do HSPUs have to cheat by using the wall. I can do them using the wall for 4-6 reps, it's really not that hard.

Edit: I went back and reread the post MMAMickey quoted. I think I get where MM was going with it. With the HSPU compared to press if you aren't lowering your head below your shoulders you aren't completely pressing your full weight. It would be like doing an overhead press without bringing the bar all the down to your chest with each rep.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 12/18/2011 7:41pm

Originally Posted by St. Sleaze

I'd disagree, yes you are pressing your full bodyweight just not through a full range of motion. Kind of like the guys at my gym that jump in the squat rack (which is rare b/c most favor leg press machine) load up 4 45 plates and squat to 45 deg. or less.

Most people who can do HSPUs have to cheat by using the wall. I can do them using the wall for 4-6 reps, it's really not that hard.

Edit: I went back and reread the post MMAMickey quoted. I think I get where MM was going with it. With the HSPU compared to press if you aren't lowering your head below your shoulders you aren't completely pressing your full weight. It would be like doing an overhead press without bringing the bar all the down to your chest with each rep.

While you get the point of my post, the integral point is that you're not pressing your full weight if you're not free standing. The wall is taking some of the weight; if it wasn't then you wouldn't have your feet leaning against it.

It's similar to a smith machine in this respect. By not pushing perfectly vertically, you push the weight against the frame to lift it, instead of lifting the full weight yourself.