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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2011 3:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IsThisRight? View Post
    As far as application in martial arts (sport or otherwise), how do you know when you should stop lifting for strength gains
    Never.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsThisRight? View Post
    ...and work more on maintenance or work more on explosive lifts like cleans and snatches or plyometric exercises?
    Never stop.


    Also: LOL @ asking these questions given your current regimen and totals.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. MMAMickey is offline
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    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2011 3:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PerseusStoned View Post
    Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.
    If you can press your bodyweight over your head within a year, and weigh more than 75kg, then you're a fucking caveman; let alone squatting 2xbodyweight.

    A year? You're fucking stoned mate.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 1:25pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PerseusStoned View Post
    I've been training for 4 months and am 80% there (granted its harder the further you go). My progress is a little slower then the average person on Starting Strength as far as I know. I mean don't get me wrong, its extremely strong compared to the average person, but as far as the professionals go it really is the bare minimum.
    Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

    exrx.net

    You either

    a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

    or

    b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

    Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.
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  4. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 5:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

    exrx.net

    You either

    a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

    or

    b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

    Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.
    This.

    I'm naturally stocky and progressed very quickly on the stronglifts program, and it still took me well over a year to get a 1xbw press.

    Of course it's possible you're simply the next hercules, but I find it hard to believe you'd get there that quickly.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  5. Coeloptera is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 8:10am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    And totally meaningless. It's much easier for a lighter athlete to lift bodyweight multiples than a heavy one. There's some kind of diminishing returns.
    Damn right. Little guys who weigh 150lbs can crank out pullups far faster and in greater numbers than I can at 220lbs. While I can bench about 250lbs at this point, a friend at 150lbs is just not capable of it. Moving your own weight around is a somewhat different game than just moving large objects. My small friend was a Marine and he obviously made the cut despite having less raw strength.

    I'm currently a solid 80lbs below my bodyweight for standing overhead press with free weights if I want to be safe and do clean reps. And it's a damn slow crawl to improve that lately. MMAMickey is right. If I could do my weight, I'd be a beast. This is 3 years in from an admittedly somewhat weak-for-my-size start.

    But multiples of body weight is a meaningless benchmark taken by itself. Smaller people will be able to do greater percentages, square-cube law and all. Look at it this way: the monsters that can bench around 800-900lbs? Strongest humans in the world? That's only around 2.25 to 3 times their body weight.

    - Coeloptera
  6. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 6:13pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are a few misconceptions on this thread. Firstly to the guy who has reached 80% of his weight goal, well done but getting the next 20% is damn hard. I am maybe 90-95% of my goals and fighting hard to get there but progress is a lot slower. Generally, the more advanced you are the harder it is to gain in general. Talk about the bodyweight equivalent standards posted as being easy once you have actually done them.

    The assumption that bodyweight work does not carry over to weights is not true and have proved this on my self. Yes, endless pushups and pullups dont build max strength. As an example work up to a controlled full range handstand pushup (hands to shoulders) and see if you can overhead press your bodyweight equivalent. Provided you have worked the rest of your body, especially your core you probably will.

    The fact that big guys find it hard to do things like pullups is a good reason to do them, don't you think. Also, "only 2.25 to 3 x bodyweight", LOL.
  7. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 6:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    As an example work up to a controlled full range handstand pushup (hands to shoulders) and see if you can overhead press your bodyweight equivalent. Provided you have worked the rest of your body, especially your core you probably will.
    Are you doing the overhead pushup freestanding between two stands so that you can go low enough for your hands to be in line with your shoulders?

    If not, then you're not actually pressing your full bodyweight.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  8. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 7:03pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    im pretty sure if you can press your own BW above your head after a year you dont need to worry about learning to fight
  9. jspeedy is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 7:18pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    Are you doing the overhead pushup freestanding between two stands so that you can go low enough for your hands to be in line with your shoulders?

    If not, then you're not actually pressing your full bodyweight.
    I'd disagree, yes you are pressing your full bodyweight just not through a full range of motion. Kind of like the guys at my gym that jump in the squat rack (which is rare b/c most favor leg press machine) load up 4 45 plates and squat to 45 deg. or less.

    Most people who can do HSPUs have to cheat by using the wall. I can do them using the wall for 4-6 reps, it's really not that hard.

    Edit: I went back and reread the post MMAMickey quoted. I think I get where MM was going with it. With the HSPU compared to press if you aren't lowering your head below your shoulders you aren't completely pressing your full weight. It would be like doing an overhead press without bringing the bar all the down to your chest with each rep.
    Last edited by jspeedy; 12/18/2011 7:24pm at .
  10. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 7:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by St. Sleaze View Post
    I'd disagree, yes you are pressing your full bodyweight just not through a full range of motion. Kind of like the guys at my gym that jump in the squat rack (which is rare b/c most favor leg press machine) load up 4 45 plates and squat to 45 deg. or less.

    Most people who can do HSPUs have to cheat by using the wall. I can do them using the wall for 4-6 reps, it's really not that hard.

    Edit: I went back and reread the post MMAMickey quoted. I think I get where MM was going with it. With the HSPU compared to press if you aren't lowering your head below your shoulders you aren't completely pressing your full weight. It would be like doing an overhead press without bringing the bar all the down to your chest with each rep.
    While you get the point of my post, the integral point is that you're not pressing your full weight if you're not free standing. The wall is taking some of the weight; if it wasn't then you wouldn't have your feet leaning against it.

    It's similar to a smith machine in this respect. By not pushing perfectly vertically, you push the weight against the frame to lift it, instead of lifting the full weight yourself.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

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