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  1. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 3:11am


     Style: FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    specialty strikes discussion: ex tiger claw

    The intent of this thread is to discuss the various types of specialty strikes; or lesser known strikes designed for a specific target, purpose, or situation. Originally, I considered placing this thread in the advanced striking forum to keep the discussion serious and educational. However, because the discussion is not limited to technique and the fact that I would also would like to examine some of these strikes from a skeptical viewpoint I figure YMAS is a safe bet.

    I hope this thread will provide the opportunity to educate practitioners of different arts on the real applications and usage of said techniques rather than the assumptions many of us have gathered from movies and dumbasses who don't know what they're talking about. I'd like to debate the practicality of these strikes and whether they can be considered a high percentage, low percentage move or somewhere in between. If you can provide evidence of a strikes effectiveness like video or some other reputable source that would be great. I think personal stories may offer something to this thread as long as it doesn't get to out of control.

    Examples of the strikes I'm talking about are tiger claw strikes, mantis strikes, leopard fist, eagle claw, crane beak, spear hand, finger strikes, ridge hand, phoenix eye fist, raking strikes, headbuts ect. I'm also interested in addressing less commonly known boxing strikes, kicking methods, various FMA and weapons strikes, and other street strikes and hand techniques like fishhooks (which I have I hard time seeing the benefit of putting your fingers in a guys mouth).

    For example: Can someone describe a situation in which a tiger claw is effective? My limited understanding is that is basically is a palm strike followed by a raking strike of the fingers. However, I don't see how the raking of the fingers can do any real damage to areas other than the eyes unless you have crazy talon like finger nails. Perhaps i've watched too many kung fu flicks.

    With an answer the practitioner of the respective art that has actually trained a tiger claw strike might explain the conditioning that it takes to actually make the strike effective (crazy hand strength maybe?) or the intended target of the strike or the limitations and proper uses of the strike and maybe even common errors and misunderstandings about the technique.

    This thread is intended to be a sort of comprehensive list of various striking techniques but can also include grips, specific holds and other lesser known hand and foot uses. Ask a question if you want, or just drone on and grace us with your limitless useless knowledge.
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 4:10am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Examples of the strikes I'm talking about are tiger claw strikes, mantis strikes, leopard fist, eagle claw, crane beak, spear hand, finger strikes, ridge hand, phoenix eye fist, raking strikes, headbuts ect. I'm also interested in addressing less commonly known boxing strikes, kicking methods, various FMA and weapons strikes, and other street strikes and hand techniques like fishhooks (which I have I hard time seeing the benefit of putting your fingers in a guys mouth).
    A judo guy I used to spar with was sensitive to pressure points, and when he'd try to fit in for a throw, I'd try to press leopard fist or phoenix eye fist into the ribs or lower back to make it painful to follow through with his motion. Place it near the fulcrum. That was the most I ever used them, even though we did forms where they were used to strike the eye, throat, solar plexis and groin.

    I also think the open palm to the ear can be a pretty great strike. There's an easily blocked arc that the arm travels in so you can't do them whenever you feel like it, but you can get them in if you can get your arm on the inside of theirs, or if they're foolish enough to grab your cross side wrist. It can be very disorienting even if it's not that painful, which I think is actually better. A LEO trainer/aikido teacher I train with uses this one to set up locks.

    For example: Can someone describe a situation in which a tiger claw is effective? My limited understanding is that is basically is a palm strike followed by a raking strike of the fingers. However, I don't see how the raking of the fingers can do any real damage to areas other than the eyes unless you have crazy talon like finger nails. Perhaps i've watched too many kung fu flicks.

    With an answer the practitioner of the respective art that has actually trained a tiger claw strike might explain the conditioning that it takes to actually make the strike effective (crazy hand strength maybe?) or the intended target of the strike or the limitations and proper uses of the strike and maybe even common errors and misunderstandings about the technique.
    If the palm strike is under the chin, the head angle changes so that the fingers enter the eye sockets fingertip first, instead of just raking down after a palm strike. Even without crazy finger strength or pointy nails, this can be pretty awful. The rocking of the head can also lead to attacking the posture, which can be very useful.

    This thread is intended to be a sort of comprehensive list of various striking techniques but can also include grips, specific holds and other lesser known hand and foot uses. Ask a question if you want, or just drone on and grace us with your limitless useless knowledge.
    The sapu in FMA is very interesting to me, but I'm not really skilled enough to comment much. It's as complex as describing how to set up and apply a judo footsweep, which I suck at. I also think that spinning sweep/iron broom that they do in silat and hapkido competitions is pretty nifty.
  3. shigi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 9:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: None currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to add one more to the list.

    This thing.
    It's a strike that is so absurd that I don't even know if it's fictional or not... I think it's called "tetsuzanko", but I'm not sure. All I know is that pretty much every videogame character that knows kung-fu will do this move at some point, and if you google it you'll only find this move in videogame/anime and **** like that.
  4. Iainkelt is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 9:50am


     Style: 10thP/BJJ/Wrestling/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't speak much to the actual strikes you mentioned, but as far as fish hooking goes it can be a painful way to move someone's head in a desired direction (to set up a choke or create space etc).
    The obvious drawback is that you are sticking a finger or two inside someone's mouth and that can be: a) dangerous; and b) gross.

    I certainly wouldn't want to focus on it as a primary technique even for "the deadly streets" but under certain circumstances where you don't have a lot of other options it could have a useful place.

    On a side note, I've had people try to use "pressure point" techniques while grappling and to be honest the most it did was piss me off. I'm sure that in some cases they could be used to move an arm or turn a face away etc but when people try to use a knuckle in the ribs etc to break a triangle choke? Uhhh yeah...no. But enjoy wasting your energy on that while the tunnel grows smaller and smaller.
  5. driver is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 10:50am


     Style: Work got in the way

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about the open hand/palm strike, like that Bas Rutten used in Pancrase? Has it potential KO power? Have you seen it used in real world (except being the favourite attack of angry females... ) ?
  6. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 11:37am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool idea for a thread.

    My old kickboxing club had one of these "Karate Striking Points" posters up on the wall in the back room. I used to look at it while stretching with ever-increasing puzzlement at what the **** some of these would be any good for.

    http://www.joernmeiners.de/Bilder/Ju_Sports/5900008.jpg

    Have a good look at the bottom left "method of attack", where you bend your hand down and strike with your bent wrist. The only corresponding place on the entire human body where it says to use that strike is the solar plexus.

    Why would you ever do that? What is the purpose of that bent-wrist attack, that seems to me like it would surely just **** up your hand like nothing else if you ever hit anything with it?
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  7. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 11:40am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Eric Paulson pushes with a one knuckle fist/ippon ken/lemon squeezer to get people to move their head in his CSW system.
    Kenpo guys do all kind of things that look odd to me, but one is a relaxed rising ridge hand to the testicles. The rational is "soft weapon for a soft target."

    In aikido the Phoenix eye / Nakadaka ken / middle knuckle fist is used sometimes for atemi to the ribs. It's more a a sharp distracting sting than a heavy shot and is usually practised to facilitate something else.
    We obviously use the tegetana/hand blade all the time in aikido. There may be historical reasons for this but it's often suggested that compared to a conventional fist it fits in more with the way aikidoka are trying to train their bodies to move i.e. keeps the feeling of constant relaxed extension.
  8. mierdadetoro is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 12:57pm


     Style: G-B BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have seen and used open hand strikes, and a palm strike seems to do less damage on the surface, but have more "brain sloshing" effect like getting hit with boxing gloves on, when aimed at the head.
  9. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 4:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i was never taught to use a "tiger claw" as a raking attack, but rather as palm heel strike.
    We were specifically told to keep the fingers back.
  10. dougguod is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2011 4:45pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Epicurus, I had a tkd teacher show us the ox jaw once. The way he explained it, you don't start with the wrist bent and then swing. The idea was to launch a regular punch or spear hand and then snap the wrist into the target (he mentioned the jaw) an instant before impact. It's really just meant to be a distraction. At the time, I thought a regular jab would be just as distracting and possibly inflict at least some damage in the bargain, unlike the ox jaw. There may have been some talk about using it as a last ditch desperation move after breaking your hand, but I might be confusing the ox jaw with something else in that regard. In any event, we didn't spend a lot of time on it and I'm pretty sure I had never seen any other art mention it until right now.

    As for tiger claws, back when Self Defense Forums was still running, it sometimes seemed like their answer to everything was "tiger claw to face, knee to groin" or vice versa. Other combatives-oriented forums have given me the impression that tiger claws are more embraced by RBSD folks than TMA people. In fact, when I used to read the Senshido forum it seemed like their entire system was built around a tiger claw variation they called the shredder.
    Last edited by dougguod; 12/03/2011 4:53pm at .
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