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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    is arnis/kali any good for hand to hand self defense

    I was told by a friend who has been practicing kali for 5 years that he doesn't work with ground fighting because he can't be taken to the ground. I don't see the use of stick fighting, where can you find sticks? Knife fighting is just stupid. If i have a knife and you don't, I win. If you have a knife, I run. If I can't run then I beg, If I can't beg, I die. I havn't been able to find any realistic videos of Kali in use yet. All I have found is one guy standing there after one attack while the other guy perform 600 strikes to him. If you stand there like a wooden dummy then any thing I do will work. I'm so anoyed by all the videos of a MAist performing 600 attacks on a dead opponent. Any way, back to my question. I showed my friend a take down I use and he told me he would side step while standing on one leg and attack me with a elbow to my back as i'm shoting for a double leg. He didn't even try to sprawl. If he is standing on one leg(no power to strike) he will be off balance. My question is does Kali work for hand to hand. Oh, he also told me that kali is more suited to multiple attackers(which I don't get, how can you fight multiple if you can't even beat one person). He said he can't spar with me because he is too wild. I spare all the time and I don't hurt my partners. Is it that deadly?

  2. #2

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kali is a great art to learn. It will improve your hand eye coordination, fluidity and train you to react to strikes.

    Your friend on the other hand is a dipshit. Kali is trained for knife fighting and yes the filipinos along with many other cultures believe that a weapon is just an extension of the arm it will not translate into the same thing since in Kali you are mostly moving in circular and figure eight patterns to generate momentum. Also many of the strikes in Kali are to the arms. Which in a knife fight makes since if your arms are injured you won't have much fight left and probably will drop your knives.

    Also to your friend's comment that he is "too wild" to spar. That is a copout, I've sparred with kali people before using the sticks and I've been of more danger to them than them to me since I've accidentally wrapped their knuckles more times than they did mine. I think the times I got wrapped was more payback than an accident. Tell your friend to stop sullying the reputation of a very good martial art.

  3. #3
    Tonuzaba's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to Bullshido, vietjiujitsu!
    Well, if you friend really said all those things, he's a buttmunch.
    Especially for not accepting your invitation to sparring.
    That would be the only way to prove his points to you.
    Now I never trained Kali, but I view it as especially interesting because of the stick/knife fighting they teach. I agree with you 100% about the uselessness of showing off dozens of techniques on a not moving opponent. On the other hand if a couple of hits with a stick/knife land where you aimed them, the other one is really not moving around much more...
    I think you overreacted in your stick and knife critique.
    A stick = a large variety of everyday items that can be picked up if they are around and used as a weapon by a person trained in using items in that way
    A knife = if you don't have a knife and cannot run away you still can attempt to defend yourself against an attacker with a knife. It doesn't mean you'll surely die. It is just a bit more likely to happen. Don't give up so fast! :5umbrella
    Try to persuade your friend to spar with you, with protective equipment if he sees the need for it (it's a useful thing anyhow for any serious sparring and remember he's so "wild").
    And/or tell him to join Bullshido and elaborate more on why he cannot spar... That way he'd get to tell his side of the story and we could get a good laugh ...
    Tonuzaba

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    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal

  4. #4

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One last comment. The guys are practiced the kali with were both blue belts in BJJ.

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To me, the cool thing about Arnis, Kali, Escrima is you start out with sticks and move to knives then to open hand. So you get comfortable with weapons early on, weapons are not some higher form that you aspire to. With training, any training, think of it as time in, the more time you have doing anything, the move comfortable you are doing it and the better you can execute a move.

    You say that the guy with the knife wins, not necessarily, an untrained bozo with a knife can be schooled by a trained MA-ist, if said MA-ist has alot of time in with knives and are comfortable with knives (and are willing to "accept the cut").

  6. #6
    Ungjaevel's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I recently started practicing some arnis, and I really like it. If your main goal is self defence it probably makes sense to learn some sort of stickfighting. Even if you dont carry sticks around with you, the movements can also be applied to knives. Furthermore, items similar to the sticks you train with can be found just about anywhere in a pinch.

  7. #7

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I would really like to know more about is Arnis hand to hand technics. Does Arnis have a realistic hand to hand fighting?

  8. #8

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    Do you guys have any video links of Arnis\kali hand to hand clips? Or is Arnis mainly sticks and knife fighting? Does Arnis\kali have good take down defense?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by vietjiujitsu
    What I would really like to know more about is Arnis hand to hand technics. Does Arnis have a realistic hand to hand fighting?
    Its been said many times before. Arnis/ kali/ escrima fighting with sticks and knives are all just extensions of the arm meaning if you dont have a weapon you still know how to fight without them.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by total noob
    You say that the guy with the knife wins, not necessarily, an untrained bozo with a knife can be schooled by a trained MA-ist, if said MA-ist has alot of time in with knives and are comfortable with knives (and are willing to "accept the cut").
    There's a reason why the Dog Brother's Knife defense video is called "Die Less Often." As was recently posted in a different thread, the only person who wins in a knife fight is the one who ends up at the hospital instead of the morgue. Assuming that "an untrained boxo with a knife" isn't dangerous is the height of ignorance.

    Are there FMA systems that have good approaches to empty hands? Yes. But typically they always prefer the use of a weapon (for all the reasons already shared). That said, the hacking hands that many use can be very effective in open hand situations.

    Do all FMA systems train empty hands well? No. But most FMA people are pragmatic enough to supplement with cross training.

    Quote Originally Posted by vietjiujitsu
    I was told by a friend who has been practicing kali for 5 years that he doesn't work with ground fighting because he can't be taken to the ground.
    Oh and your friend does sound like an ass. The range you ignore is the range you are always beaten on.

    - Matt
    Last edited by Matt Bernius; 1/04/2007 12:09pm at .
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY

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