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  1. RurikGreenwulf is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2012 1:11pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Oh, I completely agree. The AA/AC combat system was absolutely designed from the ground up to be as automated as possible without actually operating on its own. It just so happens that Sleeping Dogs is very similar to that, it just happens to be a much worse version of it.

    Assassin's Creed, Yakuza, Shenmue: These are examples of much better combat systems.



    I think the script feels like it was written by an angry teenager.
    How would you compare it to Mafia 2?
    I think the combat is awesome in Sleeping dogs maybe is because I'm a fan of GSP, but I do find the game overall really enjoyable
    Last edited by RurikGreenwulf; 9/04/2012 1:46pm at .
  2. captainbirdseye is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2012 4:37pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    As for me, I'm currently kicking it middle school-style with a PS1 emulator and Final Fantasy 7. I just picked up Cid, and wow did I not recognize what a textbook abusive relationship him and Shera have when I was 14. I'm also realizing I had precisely zero idea of how to actually use materia beyond "WOOO EXPENSIVE SUMMONS AND LEVEL 3 SPELLS ALL THE TIME".
    Dude, great stuff. Materia was a great system, and I haven't enjoyed a Final Fantasy since then. I've just played through Parasite Eve 2 and Resident Evil on an emulator and while PE2 was as awesome as I remembered, RE was appallingly bad - I couldn't believe the voice acting, intros, everything really.
  3. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 2:04am


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    Quote Originally Posted by captainbirdseye View Post
    Dude, great stuff. Materia was a great system, and I haven't enjoyed a Final Fantasy since then. I've just played through Parasite Eve 2 and Resident Evil on an emulator and while PE2 was as awesome as I remembered, RE was appallingly bad - I couldn't believe the voice acting, intros, everything really.
    IMO 9 was the last really amazing one, the combat system is disjointed compared to FF7 but what it lacked in mechanics it made up in having better music and much stronger character development along with more expressive and varied personalities.

    I was a huge 7 fan and pretty much memorized the entire game except for the damn combo to the rocket materia for Bahamut Zero. After a while I came to realize that 9 was better at what Final Fantasy wanted to do (i.e. tell a story) and replaced 7 as my all time favourite FF.

    10 was good and did some great things with its mechanics, 12 was fucking garbage.

    On the topic of RE. 2 was the best, Gamecube remake of 1 second, 4, and then, 0. All are available on Gamecube or the Wii and RE4 on the Wii has the best edition with the improved PS2 graphics and all the Gamecube content on top of some of the best motion controls on the system for shooting.
  4. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 7:40am

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    Quote Originally Posted by P Marsh View Post
    12 was fucking garbage
    While there were many things to enjoy about FFVII and FFX,
    I actually thought 12 was the best one, for a couple of reasons.

    Firstly, the protagonist was not actually the main character in the story - Balthier was the hero, Vaan merely an onlooker. This gave us an appreciation for Balthier's role that we wouldn't have had if we were given everything from his perspective (though you could argue that would have been a good game in its own right, also).

    Secondly, they managed to completely streamline the combat experience without changing anything fundamental about the way the units interacted with each other. For those people who wanted to stop the flow of the game at every combat round and input every action separately, the prerogative was theirs to do so - but for those of us that wanted to get on with the business of fighting, all of the previous obstacles to doing so were removed. It ultimately meant you could get to experience a great deal more actual game in any given period of time.

    Third: the flexibility of character customisation was unsurpassed by any other FF RPG. You could basically take any character, and make that character precisely what you wanted them to be. (FFX-2 a potential exception)

    Fourth: The story was focused on drama and politics, with no true villains - the role of every character, was justifiable given a particular set of principles, it was not based on some vapid inexplicable supernatural neuroses like the rest of the games in the series. (FFX possibly an exception to that rule to some extent).

    So there you go - Four reasons why I like FF12.
  5. simonifrius is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 8:21am


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    I also liked 12. I don't think it was the groundbreaking experience they intended it to be, and it was perhaps a bit different from the Final Fantasy cannon than what I was hoping, but the story and experience were engaging. The combat was fun for me, and I was okay with not controlling every round (except when I was overmatched or dying; then I took more immediate control). I liked the story, and I even kind of liked Vaan, because I knew he was supposed to be a dumb kid. I think you hit the nail on the head, Colin, pointing out how he was more of a witness to the events than the main protagonist.

    I think the series has been trying too hard to reinvent itself, but I grew up with it. 6 is still my favorite, and 9 was amazing too. I didn't like the characters of 7, but I liked the environment. 8 had the best character story, IMO.
  6. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 8:39am

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonifrius View Post
    8 had the best character story, IMO.
    ..The story of a hot girl who falls for a self obsessed emo who literally has no idea what to do with said hot girl.. Awesome.

    In other news, Quistis has to go down as one of the most awesome characters of all time.

  7. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 11:51am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    While there were many things to enjoy about FFVII and FFX,
    I actually thought 12 was the best one, for a couple of reasons.

    Firstly, the protagonist was not actually the main character in the story - Balthier was the hero, Vaan merely an onlooker. This gave us an appreciation for Balthier's role that we wouldn't have had if we were given everything from his perspective (though you could argue that would have been a good game in its own right, also).
    That actually bothered me- the protagonist was such an inconsequential whiney annoying idiot, that literally any other character as protagonist would've made it a better game. It could've been about a sky pirate! Or a silky female sky pirate with rabbit ears! Or an old-school warrior with a troubled and mysterious past! Or a rightful heir to a crown that was cast out by treachery! But no, they had to go with an annoying, disinterested teenage jackass who almost seemed like he didn't want to be in his own game.

    Cloud may have spent most of his game being silent or confused, but at least it was because his background is full of intrigue and secrets and scandal.

    Secondly, they managed to completely streamline the combat experience without changing anything fundamental about the way the units interacted with each other. For those people who wanted to stop the flow of the game at every combat round and input every action separately, the prerogative was theirs to do so - but for those of us that wanted to get on with the business of fighting, all of the previous obstacles to doing so were removed. It ultimately meant you could get to experience a great deal more actual game in any given period of time.
    I thought they did a great job creating a turn-based FF game where you can run around like a hack and slash. Also it was cool having your summon creatures running around on the field wrecking bad guys with you as NPCs.

    Third: the flexibility of character customisation was unsurpassed by any other FF RPG. You could basically take any character, and make that character precisely what you wanted them to be. (FFX-2 a potential exception)
    I dunno, Final Fantasy Tactics was just as good about that, IMO.

    Fourth: The story was focused on drama and politics, with no true villains - the role of every character, was justifiable given a particular set of principles, it was not based on some vapid inexplicable supernatural neuroses like the rest of the games in the series.
    There really should be some kind of reason for me to fight a many-limbed angel/demon superboss at the end of a FF game though, and such creatures don't come about from politics and drama alone.

    Also, FF12 had plenty of "kill this supernatural beast for no reason" kind of gameplay.
  8. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 12:01pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Also, FF12 had plenty of "kill this supernatural beast for no reason" kind of gameplay.
    Do you mean the hunting side quests or the story enemies? In either case it's true that supernatural beings/monsters existed in the game(or beings that WE would regard as supernatural, since it wasn't actually based on earth, just a different planet with a different ecology) however there wasn't anything as nebulous as the 'lifestream' or any of that nonsense.

    More specifically, there was no attempt to anthropomorphise the planet, and that's really the main thing.
  9. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 12:11pm


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    Here are my beefs with 12.

    There is an almost universal lack of personality in the main cast. I really can't tell the difference between Vahn, Pennello, Bashe, Ashe, and any of the other characters except for Balthier who is a dim candle in a dark cave. And somehow Fran ended up being even more bland and expressionless as everyone else. The voice acting didn't help and the license system removed any kind of characterization their equipment could have given them like other previous games.

    12's plot came off as trying to what 10 did with religion again but this time with politics coupled with the lacking presentation mentioned above created a mindless slog through a fictional royal legal system. It was very difficult for me to care about anyone or just simply try and force myself to have interest in what the characters were doing, had done, or were going to do along with the over-arching story.

    The seamless battle system was kind of cool but that is literally the only good thing I still remember about that game.
  10. simonifrius is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 12:41pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by P Marsh View Post
    Here are my beefs with 12.

    There is an almost universal lack of personality in the main cast. I really can't tell the difference between Vahn, Pennello, Bashe, Ashe, and any of the other characters except for Balthier who is a dim candle in a dark cave. And somehow Fran ended up being even more bland and expressionless as everyone else. The voice acting didn't help and the license system removed any kind of characterization their equipment could have given them like other previous games.

    Really? I thought, for one, that the dialogue was beautifully written (even though there may have been the occasional unnecessary speech, IIRC). Second, the characters may have been more nuanced, less expressive (more mature) than previous installments, but there are clear differences.

    Vaan was a disillusioned punk with a lot of growing up to do. I saw that as the point of his character; he was a kid with little to no guidance or stake in this world, suddenly swept up in the core events of it. And he was learning to be a man from the very heroes of the world. I could empathize with that.

    Pennelo was very innocent, Basch had a strong sense of duty comingled with shame, Ashe was a grieving widow trying to redeem her kingdom...they all had their own quirks. I didn't find it bland at all. Except for Fran, who seemed like a recycled character.

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