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  1. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 12:00am

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    tomoe nage

    I've had to retreat back into sacrifice throws over the last few months because of my torn knee, so tomoe nage is one of those throws that I've been revisiting. It gives me a way to be offensive without putting my knee into jeopardy. Same thing with sumi gaeshi and ura nage, although ura nage has been a huge part of my game from the beginning.

    Problem is that I can't make tomoe nage work in real time. I searched through the forums here (maybe not hard enough, but I looked through the first 4 or 5 pages of results) for some tips, and didn't find anything that was purely instructional.

    Can one of the resident judokas help me out here? Doesn't have to be pages and pages long, although that's welcome... Just a concise summary of things to look for will suffice.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 12:09am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Usually the main problem with Tomae Nage is that people do fall back into it. I teach most of my guys to drop in instead of falling back.
  3. musicalmike235 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 12:32am


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know its not technically about tomoe nage, but if you are worried about messing up your knee and you are revisiting sacrifice throws, a few that come to mind are Uki Waza, Yoko Otoshi, and Yoko Wakare.

    http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ukiwaza.htm
    http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...yokootoshi.htm
    http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...yokowakare.htm

    I am just saying because at least in my experience, Tomoe Nage is very difficult to set up, so if you haven't learned these yet, perhaps you could incorporate them into your game.
  4. PowerfulFellow is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 12:36am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shorei-Ryu/Goju-Ryu/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How are you personally executing it?
  5. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 1:14am

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The most common problem I see with the throw is people starting with their legs extended. Draw your knee up to you as you slide under uke. Don't kick until uke reaches the apex of his arc.


    "The only important elements in any society
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    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

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    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

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  6. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 1:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    I've had to retreat back into sacrifice throws over the last few months because of my torn knee, so tomoe nage is one of those throws that I've been revisiting. It gives me a way to be offensive without putting my knee into jeopardy. Same thing with sumi gaeshi and ura nage, although ura nage has been a huge part of my game from the beginning.

    Problem is that I can't make tomoe nage work in real time. I searched through the forums here (maybe not hard enough, but I looked through the first 4 or 5 pages of results) for some tips, and didn't find anything that was purely instructional.

    Can one of the resident judokas help me out here? Doesn't have to be pages and pages long, although that's welcome... Just a concise summary of things to look for will suffice.
    As noted by Omega and HH, two most common issues are just falling back instead of dropping/swinging deep under uke, and dropping with the leg extended, these often happen together.

    The third one is just falling down with no initial opening for the throw. Uke needs to be off balanced, usually meaning slightly bent over in the case of Tomoe Nage. you can facilitate that by getting him to push forward into you and then lifting your arms (connected to him by a normal sleeve and lapel or a double lapel grip).

    I can't see Youtube on this computer or I'd post some video for you. Try Kashiwazaki.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 1:44am

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    As noted by Omega and HH, two most common issues are just falling back instead of dropping/swinging deep under uke, and dropping with the leg extended, these often happen together.

    The third one is just falling down with no initial opening for the throw. Uke needs to be off balanced, usually meaning slightly bent over in the case of Tomoe Nage. you can facilitate that by getting him to push forward into you and then lifting your arms (connected to him by a normal sleeve and lapel or a double lapel grip).

    I can't see Youtube on this computer or I'd post some video for you. Try Kashiwazaki.
    Thank you BKR and Hedge... That is what I was looking for. Also what I suspected.

    I think my problem is setting up the throw. I'm pretty sure I'm attacking with a bent leg and swinging underneath uke, so it may be a problem with set up or grips.

    I watched some Kashiwazaki before I created the thread, and his throws are insane, but all the dialogue was Japanese, and I'm too culturally unsophisticated to figure out the details of what he was saying.
  8. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 1:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Thank you BKR and Hedge... That is what I was looking for. Also what I suspected.

    I think my problem is setting up the throw. I'm pretty sure I'm attacking with a bent leg and swinging underneath uke, so it may be a problem with set up or grips.

    I watched some Kashiwazaki before I created the thread, and his throws are insane, but all the dialogue was Japanese, and I'm too culturally unsophisticated to figure out the details of what he was saying.
    The "set up" for the throw is that uke is coming at you, or, is bent forward, which you exagerate by the action of your arms as you drop in. Take a look at the kashiwazaki video for "hon" (normal) tomo nage, plus the kodokan video that will come up as well on Y*T*be.

    A comnon action reaction sequence is to move backwards in tsugi ashi, tug down on uke, and use his reaction (straightening up) to swing under. It' helps if you can get them into a square stance. The T-up stuff Judoka UK talks about in his blog applies.

    Go back to square one and make sure you are doing the throw correctly before worrying about randori/shiai.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. judoka_uk is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 6:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As covered just falling straight down or even worse backwards is a common error. Also just shoving your foot in their hip and falling is guaranteeing failure, as said bring them onto your foot.

    Perhaps the biggest thing people do wrong in tomoe nage even when they do the two above right is, not using their hands!

    People concentrate in sutemi waza only on the dropping and think that alone is all you need to do. You still need to use your hands and apply kuzushi.

    This is yoko tomoe nage, but its a good illustration of the importance of a good kuzushi action and use of the hands.



    See how much he draws out uke's sleeve.
  10. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 12:52pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two points:

    1. Nage komi seems to be nearly the only way to practice this throw effectively, which requires a fair amount of mat space and a willing uke. Any recommended non-throwing drills?
    2. The cross-step in the last video is a great movement pattern for all kinds of things. For example, instead of dropping for tomoe, take a second step and then do sasae. You can really get uke off balance with it.
    Last edited by Res Judicata; 11/21/2011 12:56pm at .
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