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  1. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 7:55pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    So 1.2's article http://www.mensjournal.com/everythin...s-a-lie/print/
    says that The bottom line is that not only can lifting weights do as much for your heart health as cardio workouts, but it also provides you with a lean-muscle coat of armor against life’s inevitable blows

    Which says to me I never have to do cardio ever again. Am I reading this right? Cuz I'm talking to a friend of mine right now who's a bootcamp nut who's telling me I'll never have a 6 pack if I just lift heavy things.

    hmm that sounds a bit rambling and unfocused. Is there at least a citation for the top quote?
    They're not the same adaptations at all. You literally cannot get any significant hypertrophy of the left ventricle, which is your primary means of improving recovery, from resistance training. Improving injection fraction is not even remotely the same thing. Which is not to say that you shouldn't be lifting for health benefits, because you obviously should for things like maintaining mobility and bone mass, but saying that starting strength causes the same adaptations as Couch to 5k is bullshit.
    Last edited by selfcritical; 12/17/2011 8:00pm at .
  2. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 8:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What does injection fraction mean and why would I want to improve it?

    just googled it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_fraction

    feel even dumber after reading that
    Last edited by Lindz; 12/17/2011 8:09pm at . Reason: hlmgtfm
  3. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 8:25pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically doing work under high pressure increases the amount of force your heart can eject blood with. High intensity work and weights generally make your heart thicker, which means you can deliver blood with the quickness. However, it still has to work hard to do that. That's concentric hypertrophy(because it's caused by the concentric action of the heart, aka the effort phase). Eccentric hypertrophy is caused by the eccentric action, which is the "stretch" phase. The stretch phase is longer on slow work with a high volume, which is why lance armstrong's left ventricle is like a cavern compared to Louie Simmon's.
  4. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 8:32pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's more, the order you develop significant hypertrophy matters- significant concentric hypertrophy makes it more difficult to develop eccentric hypertrophy, but the reverse is not true(it's harder to stretch a thick thing, but it's not hard to make a stretchy muscle grow).

    Having a big left ventricle basically makes you recover faster, because it makes your heart less effort to supply blood at low intensities.
  5. Coeloptera is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 7:51am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In addition (Hi! New member here.), you can do cardio for raw endurance. Lifting weights does get my heart going, and an hour of lifting burns a lot of calories and keeps the heart rate comfortably up, but that same solid hour (or two) of interval running from just 3 to 7 MPH (at 1 minute intervals) for a month puts me in the kind of shape that allows me to do moderate-to-active physical activity for nine hours with minimal breaks.

    I need that, since every October I perform in a haunted attraction in Vegas (in addition to costuming and tech work) and have a fairly physical performance to get through for each group of patrons. I'm 36, and kids ten years my junior are crapping out before me (a few can keep up) because they don't train.

    So again, it depends what you want it for. Remember, it's hard to burn a huge amount of calories with regular running because once you get used to it, humans are very well adapted for it. We're efficient walkers and runners.

    For basic heart health, make sure you're checking your pulse rate while lifting to get an idea what it's doing for you. If it's in a good zone, you're fine. But if you want some extra oomph for specific activities, get on that treadmill or elliptical.

    - Coeloptera
  6. Bullwhip is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 8:39am


     Style: Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some trainers don't do cardio altogether and just do super sets of other exercises without stopping and that gives full cardio effect. Combat is more anaerobic than aerobic anyway.
  7. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 11:11am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your anerobic-lactic system can generate about two minutes of energy if it's running full bore and you're in very good condition. Your anerobic-alactic system can do between 8-12 seconds(15 if you're loaded to the gills with creatine) at max intensity. You cannot completely regenerate glycogen stores in your muscle in one minute.

    Including rest periods, an MMA fight is about 17 minutes in a non-championship bought.
    In boxing, it's about 39 minutes in a non-championship bought.
    If the sports were primarily anaerobic literally everyone would gas by the second round.

    By contrast, a wrestling period is either 2 or 3 minutes depending on the period, and you've got rest between them, and it's against a high resistance(another human beings bodyweight most of the time). That's legitimately majority anaerobic, although still a largeish contribution by the aerobic system.

    Saying MMA is entirely anaerobic because of the flurries is like saying soccer is primarily anaerobic because of the frequent sprints, and ignoring the fact that it's over an hour and a half long with fairly constant motion.
  8. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2011 6:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coeloptera View Post
    For basic heart health, make sure you're checking your pulse rate while lifting to get an idea what it's doing for you. If it's in a good zone, you're fine. But if you want some extra oomph for specific activities, get on that treadmill or elliptical.

    - Coeloptera
    If you are doing a weighted circuit training program Ok, if lifting heavy weights why bother. You would do well to get of the treadmill and actually run.
  9. Coeloptera is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2011 8:26am


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrh80 View Post
    If you are doing a weighted circuit training program Ok, if lifting heavy weights why bother. You would do well to get of the treadmill and actually run.
    I'm not sure i understand here. Why bother if lifting heavy weights?

    Also, I use the treadmill because my city isn't very good for paths (I'm in Las Vegas) and also so I can do precise intervals at a specific speed (I am, admittedly, a stickler about that).

    Bullwhip, how does doing super-sets for cardio effect performance at a less strenuous activity over a much longer period? Is it as good?

    - Coeloptera
  10. Prince Vlad is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2011 9:26am


     Style: BJJ n stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Muscle gain aside, the fittest and most rounded I ever got was by doing crossfit. Eg, 20 squat presses (squats followed through to shoulder press) followed by 100m sprint, followed by medicine ball twists, followed by 100m jog back (recovery period) = 1 set - complete 5 sets. The point being you are mixing up your exercises and stresses on the body rather than focusing one static push pull exercises or running you do strength/speed/endurance type training under pretty severe cardio stress. 3 months of this had my bodyfat levels down from 23% to just under 10% plus I found I had more endurance across the board. It depends on what you are looking for though, I could have gotten bigger doing bodybuilding, stronger doing pure power lifting or better at running by doing treadmill.
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