Accesory exercises on a 5x5, why 3x8?

**PerseusStoned** · Posted On: 11/19/2011 2:37pm

Hey guys, I've been following a 5x5 program for little while now but have been bothered by one thing. We've all seen the chart mapping out the reps/sets needed for strength/power/endurance/hypertrophy, etc. (if you haven't click the spoiler tag).

Spoiler:

So why is it that on 5x5 programs they encourage you to do your accessory exercises 3x8 times? It is my understanding that the accessories are supposed to fill in the gaps in your training and help target your (traditionally) weaker muscles to facilitate further compound lifting. But wouldn't 5x5 help those muscles grow best?

Thanks.

(Also I'm not changing the program or stopping following it, just trying to improve my knowledge of the body.)

**elipson** · Posted On: 11/19/2011 5:37pm

Read this article and its second part on Tnation to understand why.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._and_shoulders

tl;dr, Different kinds of muscles respond better to different rep ranges. Muscles that are fast twitch and explosive, like your chest, respond well to low rep/high intensity ranges. Support muscles, which are used continuosly at low intensities throught the day, respond to higher rep ranges and lower weight. Hence the 3x8.

**1point2** · Posted On: 11/19/2011 10:19pm

My understanding was that there are two reasons:

A) A smaller amount of muscle is involved, so it's harder and more dangerous to operate closer to your maximum. Therefore, higher reps are used to stimulate growth in lieu of higher weight. See http://startingstrength.com/resource...?t=8453&page=1

B) Assistance exercises are sometimes used not to develop strength or power, but rather endurance. For instance, I used sets of 20+ for round-backed deadlifts and 8-10 for Romanian deadlifts in order to solve the problem of my lower back failing on the 4th or 5th rep of my 2nd and 3rd sets of squats. See the rep range chart in http://www.mensjournal.com/everythin...s-a-lie/print/

**PerseusStoned** · Posted On: 11/19/2011 11:04pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

B) Assistance exercises are sometimes used not to develop strength or power, but rather endurance. For instance, I used sets of 20+ for round-backed deadlifts and 8-10 for Romanian deadlifts in order to solve the problem of my lower back failing on the 4th or 5th rep of my 2nd and 3rd sets of squats. See the rep range chart in http://www.mensjournal.com/everythin...s-a-lie/print/

Speaking of that article, this is BS right?

Spoiler:

**elipson** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 3:01pm

What's BS? The exercises in the pic you posted?

Those aren't BS. They are basic, but they are effective at what they do.

**PerseusStoned** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 3:47pm

Originally Posted by elipson

What's BS? The exercises in the pic you posted?

Those aren't BS. They are basic, but they are effective at what they do.

The article states that you should do those until you can get 2x50 on each as an "injury ward". Will accomplishing that really do much for weight-lifters (as opposed to your standard 5 compounds)?

**Eddie Hardon** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 3:48pm

Originally Posted by elipson

What's BS? The exercises in the pic you posted?

Those aren't BS. They are basic, but they are effective at what they do.

Agreed. Anyone dismissing those as BS is making a mistake.

**PerseusStoned** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 3:59pm

Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon

Agreed. Anyone dismissing those as BS is making a mistake.

So it is your belief that anyone doing 2x50 of those exercises will be significantly less injury prone?

**elipson** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 6:15pm

Yes. Significantly. And this is speaking from experience.

I've never done the knees exercise, but I am coming off a rotator cuff injury. The shoulder exercise is significant for working the infra-spinatus, which is often overlooked and a serious player in having good posture and avoiding shoulder impingment. There aren't many exercises that work it in a serious manner, and being a slow-twitch muscle is benefits from high rep exercises.

The upper back/neck exercise puts serious work in the lower traps, which are typically under-developed. This again is a posture muscle, leading to impingment and generally ugly posture. This contributed to my rotator cuff injury. And again, its a slow twitch muscle, so high reps are what gets it going.

Planks should be a standard exercise for everyone. They have replaced sit-ups for me, as they dont aggravate the lower back by making you round the lumbar like sit ups do. This rounding may be trivial with those who have a great core, but those with a history of back problems should ditch sit ups and do planks. It works the whole "corsette" of the core and doesn't place any one location of the body in a greater risk of strain.

These exercises all seem boring and unmotivating, compared to the awesomeness of deadlifts, squats, and pench press, but they all work muscles groups that are essential and typically ignored.

**PerseusStoned** · Posted On: 11/20/2011 8:12pm

Originally Posted by elipson

Yes. Significantly. And this is speaking from experience.

Thank you. I've come to understand planks are critical in "patch-work" muscle building, but was pretty skeptical about the other exercises (given the source website and its fondness for silly workouts). The article is good, but wasn't sure if the graphics were of a different nature :)