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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Dec 2005
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    W. Yorks, UK
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    5,018

    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 2:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Because its pointless for both parties.
    It's better than standing around.

    I'd rather randori a 12 year old than stand with my thumb up my arse.
  2. Krijgsman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Pasadena, CA
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 3:13pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the responses.

    The kid was about 12-14 I would guess. But I am a pretty big guy (6'3" 215lbs). But our instructor specifically told us to randori together. Its a good point that I am not qualified to be teaching anyone. I will have to keep it in mind. I am also not sure if he was legitimately injured (he continued the rest of the practice just fine) or just surprised that he got dropped on his butt. I suppose either way its not my place to be the hand (or sweeping foot) of correction.

    One thing I do like about going with the slightly younger folks is it forces me to get nice and low on my seoi nage type throws. And we have a few teens/almost teens that are beasts.

    Again, I appreciate the responses.
  3. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Jun 2009
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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 3:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    So, I am a Judo white belt at a small club with a nice mix of adult beginners and experienced students, and younger students of varying experience.

    During randori I was partnered with one of the younger yellow belts who, in my experience, hates to work hard. After he repeatedly attempted o soto gari with absolutely no kazushi and no chance of actually finishing the throw (he was basically just entangling my leg and pushing lightly) I foot swept the bajezus out of him (since we had worked on foot sweeps before randori).

    Unfortunately (and despite me remembering kime) he fell strange and jarred his shoulder a bit. I felt bad, and like my response was not as "mutually beneficial" as it should have been. He went on to spend the rest of that round: crying about his shoulder, standing around after getting his grips trying to "remember" the throw he wanted to do, and getting chewed out repeatedly for not working hard by our instructor.

    I am just looking for opinions here, was I too harsh on him? He never seems willing to work hard and I was hoping he would realize his very lazy throw attempt wasn't going to do any good. Apologies for any spelling mistakes in my Japanese terms.

    tl,dr: Should I teach a rather lazy young pre-teen/teen a rough lesson by countering his lazy throw?

    Thanks.
    No, you should not be teaching any lessons, seeing as how you are a beginner yourself.

    LOL at a white belt teaching "rough lessons". You don't have enough skill or control to counter a kid without hurting him.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 3:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    I don't think you should feel bad for countering his throw. Especially as it was a 'repeated' lazy attempt.

    Life will give him harsher lessons than you did.

    Feel like an ass for injuring him if it was down to lack of care on your part.
    But if you were looking after him as best you could when you threw and it was just an accident... Martial art or any sport, some injuries will happen.
    Lazy attempt by a kid against an adult, especially Osoto Gari, was probably just lack of skill and the size differential between uke and tori.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 3:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    My opinion is that as an adult beginner training with a pre-teen beginner, you should only be uke - in other words it's sute-geiko, not randori. Take the fall when you judge that the kid has made a good entry. Not getting the throw should be sufficient feedback. A more experienced person could maybe counter the kid with better control and judgment.

    And as a white belt, it's not your job to teach a lesson about anything to anyone - leave that to the instructors.
    Exactly
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. MikeNice is offline

    Featherweight

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    Mar 2011
    Location
    NC
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    11

    Posted On:
    11/21/2011 5:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Deleted by me for idiocy.
    Last edited by MikeNice; 11/21/2011 5:17am at .
  7. jowalker is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
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    21

    Posted On:
    2/22/2012 3:13pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :staredad:This is for regular partnering in Shotokan (kihon kumite & jiyuu), Judo (randori & sute geiko), and NCAA Wrestling Clinics (static & live) at our club:

    It depends on the age-spread and more importantly the kilo or weight proximity. The decision to put you together should be at the discretion of the instructor. No offense intended, but as you are white belt (assuming you have no MA experience) you should not be making any classroom decisions involving others.

    We often have light adults (which we consider 18 and older) train with students in middle school or high school, once again this should be at the discretion of those in charge of the class.

    I like Neil's point best: "-in other words it's sute-geiko, not randori. Take the fall when you judge that the kid has made a good entry. Not getting the throw should be sufficient feedback."
  8. jowalker is offline

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    Feb 2012
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2012 3:35pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FART INJURY::SideMouth:

    Plus you never know what is going on with kids. I have been coaching soccer and other sports for a little over 15 yrs. You never know what the hell is going on in those young minds.

    When I was about 12 yrs of age (I'm 37 now), we were training in my local dojo of mixed students. I was in middle school and the class was middle school to adult beginner and intermediates. I had been training for two years and was always trying to outdo everyone. While practicing doing line drills with yoko kekomi geri, I lifted my leg to go for a jodan kick that I knew would impress my sensei and the three new girls that had enrolled in the class. To my horror, I instead released a horn-blowing gaseous attack from my gi pants. Immediately, I dropped to the floor and tried to feign a injury saying, "Ahhh.... I think I popped my ankle." Of course, giggles were being suppressed from the class (cuz honestly who doesn't like a fart joke?). Then someone from the class muttered, "Yeah. I think I heard it pop!" The club burst out laughing. I was mortified and my head looked like a red tomatoe, but couldn't stop laughing as well.

    So, we do act a little strange when we are young, and some of our club students still test my patience every time we train. ;)
  9. Krijgsman is offline

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    Pasadena, CA
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2012 5:14pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the advice on this stuff. Randori has been making a lot more sense and we have gotten some more beginners my size, which has been awesome. It did seem like a waste of everyone's time when I dwarfed my opponents.

    Fun sidenote: the young man from my original post was kicked out of class a month ago for not paying attention and just lazing around instead of working and hasn't been back since. I don't think he wanted to be there.
  10. Lanner Hunt is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2008
    Location
    Broomfield, CO
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    23

    Posted On:
    2/24/2012 6:02am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    Thanks for the advice on this stuff. Randori has been making a lot more sense and we have gotten some more beginners my size, which has been awesome. It did seem like a waste of everyone's time when I dwarfed my opponents.

    Fun sidenote: the young man from my original post was kicked out of class a month ago for not paying attention and just lazing around instead of working and hasn't been back since. I don't think he wanted to be there.
    I dunno; him wanting to be there or not, and what seems to be his lack of ability to pay attention are, in my opinion, things that the coach needs to address more than the students. If he hasn't been back since though, that really is a shame; I think he could have learned something.

    Anyway, in response to your original post: If that happened to me, and my sparring partner was hurt, I'd go to the coach. I'm not saying I think you need to use the coach as a crutch or anything. I'm just saying that, honestly, everyone could have benefited from talking to the coach. In my experience in judo, taking such action would result in this: You, the individual who threw the person who ended up injured, learn about the minor aspects of the throw that will allow you to execute it with both more force but also more control; and the person being thrown learns more about breakfalling and how to respond to things the opponent is trying.

    Bottom line: Judo is a contact sport, and, for lack of a better way to say it, sometimes crap happens. When it DOES, even if the person on the receiving end is being difficult, talking to your sensei or coach is the way for both sides to take that crap and turn it into knowledge and experience, and prevent it from happening again.
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