Describing Mixed Martial artists as 'Boxers'

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 9:56am

Originally Posted by Einstein McFly

This is actually a huge pet peeve of mine. It seems nonsensical to describe any MMA fighter in an MMA fight as "having better boxing" or "having better wrestling" than anyone else. What the "better boxers" are doing is PUNCHING better than the other guy and better wrestlers have better TAKEDOWNS or GROUND CONTROL than the other guy. If you get rid of trying to parse everything that happens as coming from some other sport that happens to use that technique, all of this crap goes away. There's no issue with GSP never having put on a singlet and gone out on a mat because THAT'S A DIFFERENT SPORT. What he does well in MMA is takedowns and ground control which he clearly didn't learn from wrestling because, as we've mention, he never wrestled. See where I'm going with this?

It's the same thing when someone does and throw and it's described as a "judo throw" even though every form of grappling does has the same technique, not to mention the fact that that throw is invented every day on school yards by kids who have never heard of judo and can't spell wrestling. Arbitrarily mapping every movement in an MMA match into some OTHER SPORT makes discussing it much harder, as the OP and his buddy have discovered.

I guess you never learned what that first "M" in MMA stands for?

**Einstein McFly** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 4:04pm

Originally Posted by ChenPengFi

I guess you never learned what that first "M" in MMA stands for?

Ah, I see. I guess the fact that I use a cake "mix" means that when discussing it I should break it down into "I wish this cake had better eggs" or "this cake as great butter". That makes a lot of sense.

**SkullKing** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 4:40pm

Actually that makes a LOT of sense.

I can most certainly eat a cake and say "it needs more eggs" or "It has too much flour"

And you most certainly can say, "you should have used a better butter in this cake"

Any moderately descent baker can tell you that

The notion that the quality of the ingredients doesn´t affect the quality of the cake is moronic at best.

Don´t know how much you know about martial arts, but you obviously don´t know much about cakes.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 5:21pm

It's the same thing when someone does and throw and it's described as a "judo throw" even though every form of grappling does has the same technique, not to mention the fact that that throw is invented every day on school yards by kids who have never heard of judo and can't spell wrestling. Arbitrarily mapping every movement in an MMA match into some OTHER SPORT makes discussing it much harder, as the OP and his buddy have discovered.

Well, if we reverse this for striking, it's not as if all striking techniques are in all of the striking arts that work in MMA. For instance, I've never seen someone with primarily a boxing background end matches with spinning back kicks and spinning hook kicks.

Some fighters are known for their jiujitsu, and some are known for their wrestling. Both are grapplers, so why make this distinction? Would you prefer to know that your opponent's background is in wrestling, or judo, or jiujitsu, or sambo? Or would you prefer that you just know they're a grappler? I'd prefer the former.

**bobyclumsyninja** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 5:45pm

IMO within mma fighting, someone using hands better has better boxing. I wouldn't call them a boxer, unless they'd competed at some level in that particular sport, but they are using boxing, as we tend to group things. We being me, I guess. If they train boxing specifically as part of their regimen, then yes, they are boxers in a sense, but perhaps it's better to distinguish between competing and training in, when assigning them an identity.

Using aspects of a skillset, and being active in that sport aren't the same. That doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't use the term boxing for what they are doing. Dos Santos boxed the **** out of Cain. Yes he used other things, but that overhand was FIYAH.

I'm not an Australian Footballer just cos I can grab someone and pull them down. Perhaps that's a good (drinking: drinking..."makes sense with beer") compromise. GSP has better Australian Footballing that these other "wrestlers".

[/drant(drunkrant..of course)

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 11/29/2011 8:22am

Originally Posted by Einstein McFly

Ah, I see. I guess the fact that I use a cake "mix" means that when discussing it I should break it down into "I wish this cake had better eggs" or "this cake as great butter". That makes a lot of sense.

Now you're ignoring the last letter; Mixed Martial Arts.
Actually it's more along the lines of a tapenade quartet.
Sometimes the olive stuff sucks, sometimes not. Maybe the hummus over here is good but the white beans not so much.
The proportions and quality of each ingredient are independent.
Same goes for MMA.

I can also certainly pick out poor, missing or underrepresented ingredients in a recipe i am familiar with; and even discuss elements in one that i am not.
Case in point, yesterday i ate here for lunch: Downtown @ the HISAM
I commented to my lunch date that the Campari in the sorbet was a little too forward and alcoholic tasting, and that the white chocolate ginger in the strawberry crisp was a little odd but good.
The pan-roasted monchong was over the top delicious and we both were surprised on how the sear came out but the fish was still moist.

Discussing individual elements is fine so long as you can discern them.

**robdaze151** · Posted On: 12/01/2011 12:17pm

Originally Posted by SkullKing

Actually that makes a LOT of sense.

I can most certainly eat a cake and say "it needs more eggs" or "It has too much flour"

And you most certainly can say, "you should have used a better butter in this cake"

Any moderately descent baker can tell you that

The notion that the quality of the ingredients doesn´t affect the quality of the cake is moronic at best.

Don´t know how much you know about martial arts, but you obviously don´t know much about cakes.

Ha!!!!
*Alf*
+151
the dfferent ingredients do determine the outcome

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 12/01/2011 12:52pm

Originally Posted by SkullKing

Actually that makes a LOT of sense.

I can most certainly eat a cake and say "it needs more eggs" or "It has too much flour"

And you most certainly can say, "you should have used a better butter in this cake"

Any moderately descent baker can tell you that

The notion that the quality of the ingredients doesn´t affect the quality of the cake is moronic at best.

Don´t know how much you know about martial arts, but you obviously don´t know much about cakes.

This is easily the gayest comment on this thread.

**RWaggs** · Posted On: 12/02/2011 12:11pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

This is easily the gayest comment on this thread.

You sure about that?

Originally Posted by ChenPengFi

Case in point, yesterday i ate here for lunch: Downtown @ the HISAM
I commented to my lunch date that the Campari in the sorbet was a little too forward and alcoholic tasting, and that the white chocolate ginger in the strawberry crisp was a little odd but good.
The pan-roasted monchong was over the top delicious and we both were surprised on how the sear came out but the fish was still moist.

I'm moist.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 12/03/2011 7:18pm

I'm very surprised no one has come bellowing in to announce that there are no such things as "Judo throws" in Mixed Martial Arts, because to do proper judo, one must use X and Y grips on the judogi, and as there are no more judogis allowed in the Octagon (and it's various non trademarked spin offs)....