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  1. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 2:10am


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dflanmod View Post
    Well while we're waiting on Devil I'll throw in my thoughts on this.
    I believe that our country is headed for economic destruction.
    We got people protesting about jobs and inequality but we are'nt even seeing the tip of the ice berg here. Now wether you think we can spend our way out or tax our way out is of no consequence. The situation needs to be looked at for what it is without the emotional attachment that would prohibit one from seeing the issue.

    Bottom line for me is this. Our country has been spending way too much for too long. The housing bust really just moved the time table up and now we have to face the piper sooner than anticipated. No economist out there really believes that we can indefinately run with the deficits that we are currently running.

    Our leaders know we are headed for disaster. The ecconomists know we are headed there. Hell a lot of people feel it coming in the pit of their stomache. You know the numbers don't add up.

    But we will not do what it takes to fix the issue.
    If the answer is austerity the left will object.
    If the answer is somehow more spending the right will object.
    If the answer is to produce our own oil (thus keeping 350 billion a year in the U.S) then the enviromentalists will object.

    Long story short...
    We will continue to do nothing until the system crashes.
    Each elected official will promise change then do the exact opposite and further hasten the process.


    Pretty succinct and to the point , however where I most likely may differ with your opinion is that I think it's much further along the road you cite than most are aware of. And we Are increasingly becoming polarised into subgroups at each others throats. We're already seeing the effects of this in the increased caterwauling by the *real* splinter fringe whacko groups
    both religiously and ideologically based.

    It's not unreasonable to extrapolate a future scenario wherein the govt has broken down completely and we have descended into Balkanisation. And of course give humanities inherent propensities such a scenario would give rise to any number of petty little tyrants seeking control over a vulnerable populace.

    Think me crazy , but I long ago left the cities. Beans , bullets and bandaids , heirloom
    seeds and horticultural supplies , adequate medical supplies , spare boots , a good trap string , various trade goods. I'll invest in such things rather than the market or precious metals.

    A decent rifle and a string of traps will feed you and even in the lower 48 will in some locales provide an income , an ounce of gold will just break a tooth , or perhaps you could drop some real expensive shot for a shotgun.

    And in such a scenario what a man can *do* will be ultimately more important than education , the fact that I can make water do what I desire it to do will be worth more than the considerable education I endured , a ggood blacksmith , a solar or small hydro tech will be of more value than the MBA will.

    Would that such a scenario never come to pass , however given the dismal state of affairs coupled with the even more dismal list of candidates for the Oval Office I'd hazard a guess that we're screwed , and quite likely well within the next decade.

    Lemme see here ( again)

    O'Bummer...............we saw how that worked out the first time around.

    Romney.......yeah an ex Ceo of freaking Bain Capital in the White House....Fox? Henhouse anyone?

    Ron Paul..............yeah he'll get the nomination ..sure thing...rehashed Spooner and Rothbard along with a smattering of Von Mises , still a hog trought politico.

    Bachman..........I swear to GOD ( apropriate with her) that every time she opens her damn mouth I hear the theme from the twilight zone.

    Cain........." my wife is THIS high , is that your thigh?".........implosion.


    Perry.........if another person says to me " you're orginally from Texas are you going to vote for Rick Perry/" I'm gonna scream or else go dig up Anne Richards and have her kick his ass.

    Austin HELL , is there anybody in frigging Texas that doesn't have a HookersNBlow story about Perry. Frigging epitome of a Southern Democrat even if he does call himself a Republican nowadays , bastard lovechild of LBJ diddling Preston Bush.

    Newt Gingrinch , not a benign creature like most Newts , this one is poisonous , a weird channeling of Strom Thurmond and George Wallace with fundy undertones.....shudder.


    We are SO screwed.
  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 3:35am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    5. It creates a big tent.
    We, the 99%, are people of all ages, races, occupations, and political beliefs. We will resist being divided or marginalized. We are learning to work together with respect.
    The way you've defined the rest of the problem prevents that. The way the OWS has been portrayed in the mainstream media, and the way the left wants it to be portrayed is destroying any chance of this becoming a bipartisan coalition against banking power and into a tribally polarised 'lazy hippies vs the hardworking suburbs' issue.
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  3. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 9:34am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ZOMG, Bullshido unfair!

    First, those "better than you" tags are wrong. I demand that Bullshido change those to pink "as good as everyone else" tags! Also, everyone needs an "I'm good, you're good" tag.

    Also, everyone needs to have equal mod priveleges. Srsly.

    Finally, Bullshido needs to apologize to everyone it's been mean to!!!

    OCCUPY BULLSHIDO!!!!!!!!!!!

    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  4. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 9:52am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dflanmod View Post
    Devil, care to expound a little more upon this? I'd really be interested in hearing your opinion on how and why it will require bloodshed to fix our problems.
    Because talking is getting us nowhere. That's true regardless of your viewpoints. The Occupy movement is a perfect example. They're going to accomplish nothing. It's a media event and a circus. People chatter away about it for a while, then it will taper off to nothing. Same thing with the Tea Party. Same thing with any party. If any of these movements were able to make real headway and accomplish something, I'd be more optimistic about our ability to make meaningful change peacefully.

    Government is too fucking bloated and there's no turning back. Government is not going to downsize itself. Government will grow and grow until it pops like a zit.

    Our political system is a failure. Political office is about personal achievement, not about public service. Elected officials are only interested in winning the next election. Compromise in the interest of the nation's welfare doesn't happen.

    I have more thoughts on what caused these problems, but it doesn't matter and will only generate more argument. There's nothing either side can say that hasn't already been said. The country is as polarized today as it was at the beginning of the Civil War. When you have two guys in a room who hate each other, they're only going to talk **** for so long before they start throwing blows.

    For the record, I want to make it clear I am against acts of violence toward the U.S. government or U.S. citizens.
  5. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 10:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Supply and demand. Human beings--whatever they may (or may not) have been worth in some part of the past--are not worth much now, and the value is dropping. Large-scale employment (like assembly-line manufacturing) has been outsourced from the West, and even that will only last as long as machines can't be made to 'man' the assembly lines more cheaply than developing-country flesh-and-blood drones.

    The remaining human livelihoods in the 'global economy' will be in 'creative' areas where there will be a few giants, possessing almost all the resources, their gilded walls surrounded by multitudes of little people hoping to be among those chosen to receive a few crumbs in return for a lifetime of abject servility.

    Escape? 'Leaving' the global economy (a wish I hear spoken with increasing frequency) might be an interesting idea--but the GE's thirst for resources will eventually send its minions and their machines to destroy whatever piece of wilderness anyone may have found as a retreat. No place is sufficiently distant any more.

    I'm glad I'm nearly fifty. Fewer remaining years of this charming scenario to experience...
  6. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 10:42am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Fail again, n00b.

    Well, I'll listen to opposing sides, but not if they're longer than the dead sea scrolls, which all of Pat's posts are. (sorry Pat, you know it's true).
    .
    Maybe you can handle the cartoons. Or even the pie chart, professional guy, I know that it's more fun to express opinions than deal with data....



    here's some long boring stuff:
    FINANCIALIZATION (fr. Wiki)
    "Financialization may be defined as: "the increasing dominance of the finance industry in the sum total of economic activity, of financial controllers in the management of corporations, of financial assets among total assets, of marketised securities and particularly equities among financial assets, of the stock market as a market for corporate control in determining corporate strategies, and of fluctuations in the stock market as a determinant of business cycles" (Dore 2002)

    More popularly, however, financialization is understood to mean the vastly expanded role of financial motives, financial markets, financial actors and financial institutions in the operation of domestic and international economies.

    Sociological and political interpretation have also been made. In his 2006 book, American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century, American writer and commentator Kevin Phillips presented financialization as “a process whereby financial services, broadly construed, take over the dominant economic, cultural, and political role in a national economy.” (page 268). Philips considers that the financialization of the U.S. economy follows the same pattern that marked the beginning of the decline of Habsburg Spain in the 16th century, the Dutch trading empire in the 18th century, and the British Empire in the 19th century: (It is also worth pointing out that the true final step in each of these historical economies is; collapse)."
    ----
    But when another major collapse comes, the financial fraudsters and gamblers will simply transfer the losses to the people and give themselves big bailouts and bonuses.
    ---
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 11/17/2011 11:01am at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  7. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 10:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Aikido,Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Because talking is getting us nowhere. That's true regardless of your viewpoints. The Occupy movement is a perfect example. They're going to accomplish nothing. It's a media event and a circus. People chatter away about it for a while, then it will taper off to nothing. Same thing with the Tea Party. Same thing with any party. If any of these movements were able to make real headway and accomplish something, I'd be more optimistic about our ability to make meaningful change peacefully.

    Government is too fucking bloated and there's no turning back. Government is not going to downsize itself. Government will grow and grow until it pops like a zit.

    Our political system is a failure. Political office is about personal achievement, not about public service. Elected officials are only interested in winning the next election. Compromise in the interest of the nation's welfare doesn't happen.

    I have more thoughts on what caused these problems, but it doesn't matter and will only generate more argument. There's nothing either side can say that hasn't already been said. The country is as polarized today as it was at the beginning of the Civil War. When you have two guys in a room who hate each other, they're only going to talk **** for so long before they start throwing blows.

    For the record, I want to make it clear I am against acts of violence toward the U.S. government or U.S. citizens.
    I'm not sure that "nothing" has been acomplished. I have not been hearing our fearless leaders say "THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN" as they attempt legislation to reverse gains in civil rights granted to women, minorities, voters, organized labor to name a few. I think a few of these leaders may wonder if the sheep who vote, may be considering how to vote in the next election. Regardless of immediate recognition of any gains or changes to our system of government, people are standing up and saying that "We The People" are here and we vote.
    The fact that so many people are moved to stand together, indicates that our government should address the needs of our people instead of their pledges to Grover Norquist etc.
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 11:00am

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pat is getting there but behind those charts is the insane "fake" money that the centralized banking systems create and trade to each other. We really need to cripple or dissolve the Federal Reserve. The problem as I've researched it is that we can't dissolve the Fed without the rest of the World doing it too especially the Euro Zone. We are now deeply connected to the European Central Bank. This is one of the tricks Tim Geithner pulled when he "saved the economy" in 2007-8.

    I just don't see a way out of the pretend money game without a world wide financial reset.
  9. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 11:04am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a very short post.

    "I view derivatives as time bombs, both for the parties that deal in them and the economic system." - Warren Buffet, 2002

    There, did everyone manage to digest that little tidbit?
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 11/17/2011 11:19am at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  10. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2011 11:13am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still think derivatives are a symptom not the disease. The free money game played by the Fed and large investment banks is what has made it possible. That and the fact that the Fed has NO business posing as a "regulator". The very idea that the FDIC and the Fed could disagree is insane.

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