I wanna learn how to use a bayonet!

[danno]

My opinion on blades such as the F Dick is mixed , I've broken a half dozen knives doing it and two of them were Gerber Mark IIs and they both broke in the same place and they were *both* the 440c version as opposed to the early L6 tool steel version.

my bro has used the F Dick for about 5 or 6 years and many, many hunts. i've never seen a knife get broken personally, though i don't doubt it happens. i also don't hunt very often myself.

I'm still interested in what you folks are using for dogs down there ,whether for catch or strike or bay usage. Y'all using a silent strike dog or one that Bells immediately?

Here there's a limit on the number of dogs one can use so folks doing catch and kill ( gotta have a depredation permit for it now) sometimes will run a silent strike dog with two bay dogs that will bell up when they get the hog bayed , the you lead up the strike dog and send in the catch dogs as you pull the bay dogs off.

i don't know anyone who uses dogs which are trained for specific roles. they're all large and usually loud. as long as they can chase and grab the pig.

hunting permits are required, but few pig hunters have them. if there are dog limits, i know nothing about it, and it doesn't appear that anyone is following any kind of rules.

And quite frankly nowadays it's a lot easier to just get 'em bayed up and walk up and shoot 'em in the damn head from 20 feet away , we've got too damn many of them to be screwing around wrestling and sticking 'em , much less live catch.

i couldn't imagine shooting a pig with dogs on it, you must be a good shot.

but i think most people here wouldn't be interested in that. they like the challenge. it's a very popular pastime in rural areas.

By the way , if you're gonna do the catch dog thing , don't listen to the idiots who tell you to train that dog to catch by the ear , an ear is just a flap of skin to a hog and a dog that catches there will have the hog swivel on it and zip him real bad if it's a boar , it it's a sow it will be worse because whatever she gets her mouth on is going to turn to pulp and bone shards.

the ear can just rip off a bit, too. but if you've got an armoured dog on each side, not so bad. not aware of anyone who trains dogs specifically to go for the ear, but they certainly don't train them to avoid it. as long as they hold on to something. a single small dog swinging from the end of an ear is different to multiple dogs grabbing anything they can, if you know what i mean.

As to what works for catch dogs , it's more of a case of what *doesn't* work , a whole slew of breeds that are passed off by the AKC ,UKC , BKC etc. as being " originally a boar hunting dog" are dismal failures at it , a great many terriers are unsuitable for a different reason , that being they'll tend to fight the hog too much and get themselves killed *especially the various Bull Terriers * , Airedales are a bit better but still problematic.

Personally I prefer CataHoulas ( Leopard Cur) or Blackmouth Curs , though had to go to Dabney for blood with the necessary grit , I won't risk the Patterdales or APBTs doing it anymore.

And if anyone is going to tell me how wonderfully fantastic their APBT is as a catch dog
don't bother , since it's one of three things , you've an example that's the drastic exception to the rule , you're full of **** , or you just haven't managed to run the dog into a hog that will kill it yet.

Me , well I like Plotts for strike dogs , but then I don't mind a hardheadeded independent type dog , Walkers nowadays are so soft they have to come back and sniff your ass to make sure you're still coming along.

they're all complete mongrels here. any dog who performs well and has a good nature gets to make babies, so they're heavily mixed.

you mention some breeds i've never heard of, they might be rare in aus.

[Jazzman]

my bro has used the F Dick for about 5 or 6 years and many, many hunts. i've never seen a knife get broken personally, though i don't doubt it happens. i also don't hunt very often myself.



i don't know anyone who uses dogs which are trained for specific roles. they're all large and usually loud. as long as they can chase and grab the pig.

hunting permits are required, but few pig hunters have them. if there are dog limits, i know nothing about it, and it doesn't appear that anyone is following any kind of rules.



i couldn't imagine shooting a pig with dogs on it, you must be a good shot.

but i think most people here wouldn't be interested in that. they like the challenge. it's a very popular pastime in rural areas.



the ear can just rip off a bit, too. but if you've got an armoured dog on each side, not so bad. not aware of anyone who trains dogs specifically to go for the ear, but they certainly don't train them to avoid it. as long as they hold on to something. a single small dog swinging from the end of an ear is different to multiple dogs grabbing anything they can, if you know what i mean.



they're all complete mongrels here. any dog who performs well and has a good nature gets to make babies, so they're heavily mixed.

you mention some breeds i've never heard of, they might be rare in aus.

Clear up a couple of points , you don't start shooting at a hog that has catch dogs on it
you're going to whack a dog more likely than not. Bay dogs will run the hog until it stands if they're any good , it's up to you to keep up and shoot the hog. Small dogs aren't real practical over here anymore , there has been an increase in size in many areas as regards the hogs , a for real 300 and well past is common in some places and I'm not the only one to note the seeming increase in aggressive tendencies , could well go with the progression from just feral to truly wild and bumper crops of available browse.

Cut vests....they can help your dogs a great deal but are still no gaurantee , and where there are dog limits it behooves one to train your dogs for specific targets , two dogs can control a hog if trained right and deep in the jowl or high shoulder where they can swivel with the hog and keep him from getting under them.

Truth be known nowadays I just prefer no dogs at all and spot and stalk with a handgun ,it's a lot more peaceful and you don't have to chase a lost dog all over hell and gone if it suddenly decides it's a Deer dog or something besides what it's supposed to be doing.

And if you know the territory and know where the hogs feed and water you can just wait on them anyway. Going out with dogs occasionally is good for the primal feeling aspect but I'm too old for it constantly.

And now we have the " no lead" restrictions in certain zones , which of course with a handgun means completely revamping your hunting loads for the new slugs or not hunting those zones. And they're checking ammo just the way they do with the waterfowlers and upland bird folks.

Federal wildlife in conjunction with state Fish and Game in many places has screwed a lot of things up here. Ignoring trash non native species like hogs , and the re-introduction of other sub-breeds of species in other places , example the debacle with the planting of the Canadian Grey Wolf into the Yellowstone eco-system , the Canadian Wolf being much larger than the original lower 48 Wolves and adapted to larger prey. They tossed an apex predator perhaps THE apex predator in that region right into the banquet of the Yellowstone Elk herd and breeding grounds. Research the effect.

In some locales on the West Coast the constant expansion of the population into rual areas and the various moratoriums on the hunting of Mountain Lions has brought conflict and incident. Most always to the detriment of the animal.

Flip side of that is that I'm distinctly unsympathetic to folks who will move to a swamp and then complain about the gators. People who move to the backcountry and then want to civilise it all are a pain in the ass.

If you have a lion getting your goats then either bring 'em in or just practice the three S's
if he's not screwing with you then leave him alone , he was there first and he's not real edible. Bad idea to be eating top of the food chain predators.

And Bobcats , Foxes and Coyotes are much more likely to be hard on your stock than a lion or a bear.

[Jazzman]

These sites might be entertaining for some folks here. As I remember the first has some Australians in the forums. The second will give a good overview of the pineywood Big Thicket type cur dogs , though it doesn't address catahoulas or the various feists , Mollosser type breeds etc.


http://www.baydog.com/


http://www.blackmouthcur.com/HA03.htm


EDIT: if you look at the dogs for sale section and y'all decide to bring something over to breed into your stock etc.etc. then yell at me via p.m. and I'll run down the breeder , their reputation etc.etc. , there's a lot of good dogs go through that board , though certain breeds are hit and miss , many of the crosses are worth a look too.

[danno]

we can get some large pigs too, but in some places pigging is so popular that it keeps the size down.

it seems like hunting in australia without government interference is easier in australia simply because it's so sparsely populated. practically impossible to enforce hunting laws over most of the country, i think few people know what the laws actually are.

don't get me started on introducing species and so on, we've had a few catastrohpies.

[scottishsoldier]

The MCMAP manual has a chapter devoted to bayonet drills, they are a bit more detailed than the UK Pamph and have a lot of slashes etc. I believe the DoD has made the manual available, but I have an electronic copy if you want it (if i can work out how to send it as it's too large for hotmail).

As a Jock, Bayonet training is a regular activity post battle PT. I must admit, I love it.

Nothing beats getting woken up at 3am, enduring endless change parades for 2 hours, then getting beasted for several hours, crawling through slime infested water dodging the drill grenades going off at your feet, sitting on your knees in the p*****g rain bowing to the Gods chanting "war, war, war" then getting beasted a bit more, standing in line next to your best mucker, very willing to fight him to the death if asked, then stabbing F**k out of a CBRN clad dummy. Pigs blood everywhere, you're encouraged to take handfuls and smear it over your face before the SNCO clears you off the range.

Then you all march back to the block victorious, past the civvies in the bus stop outside who look at you in horror. Fast forward to Nad Ali and bein absolutely gutted that despite fixing bayonets as per the drill square 6 times, my blade still came home dry........:sadmelvin:

[Rock Ape]

LMAO..

Priceless mate

[Chili Pepper]

I have a monograph translation (by Dennis Rovere) of a Chinese bayonet manual from the early part of the 20th century, and it's all based on hsing-i spear technique. Fairly straightforward, although I think some of the footwork might not be suitable for soldiers.

Back in my teens and early 20's, I used to participate in reenactments of the War of 1812, and we would practice the bayonet drill of the period, which consisted of three movements:

Guard - a back-weighted stance, left foot and hand forward, right hand to the rear at the hip, bayonet tip at the level of your eyes.

Point - weight shifts to the front foot, arms extend, palms facing inward, let out a yell.

Foreshorten - weight shifts again to the rear, pull the arms back while rotating the musket (to work the triangular bayonet out of the wound), right hand ends up beside the right ear.

(and reading the discussions on hunting hogs ... how the **** did we ever domesticate them??)

[Tom Kagan]

Hey.. I didn't write that ****.. I just have to repeat it during the lesson.

You *have* to lie to them?


FACT: Any blade sharp enough to cut in will also cut out. If you get a blade hung up on bone, the bloodgroove won't make a damn bit of difference in getting the blade out.

As mentioned, the real reason for the bloodgroove is to stiffen the blade for the same (or less) weight. It may seem odd that removing material from a blade can make it stiffer, but the basic physics can be demonstrated with a piece of paper: A carefully fanfolded paper sheet can stand on edge and balance a plate on top. A bloodgroove in a blade supports the narrower tip area with the same principle (well sort of not exactly, but that gives a layman's idea).

How the bloodgroove received its nickname was because of three factors: 1) During initial manufacture, the groove was not forged or polished well (either a time, quality, or skill/tool factor). making a rough surface. 2) The "capillary action" of blood would fill the rough groove, turning it red. 3) The groove is inherently harder to keep clean. (Alternatively: It rusted to a red hue due to the iron content).

Soldiers and the local bad guys come back from a skirmish, have a few drinks, start exaggerating and making **** up, then: Voila! The folklore of the bloodgroove is born. The folklore around the bloodgroove is found in most cultures.

Generally, the shorter the blade, the less effect the bloodgroove has on stiffness. There are combat knives without a bloodgroove. If the bloodgroove was an integral component of a blade's combat effectiveness, it wouldn't omitted from the design.

The primary purpose of a combat blade since shortly after the dawn of modern warfare is utility. Maiming and killing are secondary purposes. Given that premise, it stands to reason that all changes to combat blades since roughly the 16th century onward were: 1) geared toward improving its versatility as a tool, 2) improving durability, 3) improving portability, or 4) improving ease of manufacture. Any and all changes which improved lethality were freebies.

Odd anecdote regarding the blade's utility status: It took Colt Manufacturing two generations of the M16 to solve the problem of a bent barrel from soldiers and marines using the rifle with an affixed bayonet to pry open crates. They were using their primary weapon in a utility role! No amount of training could convince them they shouldn't use a rifle as a substitute for a crowbar. The manufacturer ultimately had to add a heavier barrel to the M16's weight, thus giving up what was a small improvement in combat efficiency.

I believe the DoD has made the manual available, but I have an electronic copy if you want it (if i can work out how to send it as it's too large for hotmail).

Unless you want to tempt DHS to inquire, find out first if it's still unclassified before distributing or receiving in the US.

[gregaquaman]

I'd be interested in knowing what he's using for dogs , both for catch dogs and for strike and bay dogs.

cattle dog bull terrier cross.

Smaller for movingthough scrub.

Catle dog as in blue heeler I think.

[Rock Ape]

You *have* to lie to them?

If its in the pamphlet then it generally gets quoted.

Feel free to write to Whithall and offer them your expertise in the matter. I'm sure they'll listen.