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  1. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2011 7:40pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    We cheered him on much to the distain of the staff running the course.
    So, I take it that wasn't the by-the-book thing to do. What's the actual procedure for when something like that happens?
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2011 8:37pm

    staff
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So, I take it that wasn't the by-the-book thing to do. What's the actual procedure for when something like that happens?
    No. The lad did EXACTLY what he needed to do had that situation been for real. However; shoulder barging the frame holding the sandbag dummy whilst he continued to ravage it with the blunt stub of the bayonet just pissed the staff off, I think mainly because a bunch of us were cheering the lad on and arsing about on the sidelines having finished our section of the training.

    The staff wanted the lad to stop and recover the remains of the blade from the previous charge and get a new bayonet.

    Different situation but similar circumstances :

    I was leading a section of troops on a live fire advance to contact range which involves us advancing within a range of undulating ground with various electronically controlled targets whch will present themselves at distances from 5 meters out to 100mtrs, some of these targets are placed within stream beds which, in the winter are waist high in water.

    We were in one such stream advancing up the incline when a target appeared which I could see but my battle buddy couldn't (it was obscured by a turn in the ground) I opened fire on the target putting four rounds into it, I shouted "CROSSING" and advanced across the line of fire of my buddy's rifle so that I could 'clear' the enemy position.

    What my buddy didn't hear (because we're all wearing ear defenders) was my declaration "one enemy dead, position clear MAGAZINE, MAGAZINE, MAGAZINE" I'm now laid on my back changing out my magazine in anticipation of the next contact when my buddy walks around the corner to instantly see the target I'd just "cleared" because I was laying on my back carrying out the mag change, the head of the target was less than 4 foot away from my own head and level with it, My buddy instantly opened fire on the target putting another three round into what he could see - the head and shoulders - this resulted in wooden splinters from the target and the post supporting it, flying off in all directions, some of which embedded into my helmet cover. It's the closest I've come to being shot (and killed) in training.

    Now, in training the safety margins involved in that engagement were off the scale in terms of danger to myself so, my buddy shouldn't have opened fire due to the risks however, IRL thats EXACTLY what I'd have hoped he'd do, he demonstrated that he was capable of very close range accuracy with 5.56mm under very arduous physical conditions (we'd been doing this all fucking day in the cold)..

    Some pictures of that day.
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    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  3. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 2:49am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Finally spoke to my mate who kills pigs to death with knives and dogs. To start with he had never heard of that use of a blood groove. He liked the Idea but had not without propting noticed any difference.

    He will thow the pig down and use a sissoring action with the knife in the chest to kill it. Or if it is really big hook one leg and stab around.

    He has no trouble getting the knife in and out with this technique.

    He did comment that to him blad steel was important and the sharper the better.

    I haven't tied him down long enough to get into the debate of stainless vs carbon or see a demonstration. But even for me personally I think it will be a learning experience if I can.

    There wont be no pics if I do though. Having photos of me knifing things do death out there would not be a career move.
  4. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 11:29am


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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I might see if I can hunt down some pig hunters and see if they notice a difference anecdotaly

    It's a myth. And when someone tells you they hunt hogs with a knife then immediately ask them two things , the first being what state they live in , since of course it's illegal in many states.

    The ask 'em what sort of catch dogs they utilise and how many they lose.

    If they stammer and sidestep on either of those then they're full of **** and attempting to accentuate their testosterone. Same thing with all the " I hunt Boar with a spear" bullshit 90 percent of which is talk , though there *is* some of it in Hawaii.
  5. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 11:42am


     Style: Kempo

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Finally spoke to my mate who kills pigs to death with knives and dogs. To start with he had never heard of that use of a blood groove. He liked the Idea but had not without propting noticed any difference.

    He will thow the pig down and use a sissoring action with the knife in the chest to kill it. Or if it is really big hook one leg and stab around.

    He has no trouble getting the knife in and out with this technique.

    He did comment that to him blad steel was important and the sharper the better.

    I haven't tied him down long enough to get into the debate of stainless vs carbon or see a demonstration. But even for me personally I think it will be a learning experience if I can.

    There wont be no pics if I do though. Having photos of me knifing things do death out there would not be a career move.

    There's a guy who *knows* , however note that ( I have no way of knowing how large your hogs on running over there...could you shed some light on that) if you're going to do this it would behoove you to pick a sub 200 lber. Hogs vary from place to place , hereabouts they average too large to attempt this , and indeed they're large enough and tend to stand enough that I just run stike dogs and Bay dogs , I won't put catch dogs down anymore on 'em , tired of sewing up dogs and trying to carry a 60 lb dog back to the rig while holding a Ringers bag and praying the dog makes it.

    we've an interesting little smaller " hog" over here too that's native to the southwest that you might of heard of that's a whole different kettle of fish too, the various Peccaries or Javelinas , their social dynamic is similar to feral hogs but even more so , the vast majority of the time they'll come to a distress squeal , and when I say come to it I mean the whole damn pack and they'll quite literally shred a dog , you wouldn't want to be afoot in the middle of a bunch of them with their adrenaline up either , they take care of their own and give no quarter. Gutsy , very smart little critters. A pleasure to just sit and watch.

    EDIT: by the way , the flame wars here , the gong saus etc have absolutely nothing on the same stuff that comes from the question of " what blade and steel is best" on any given forum.

    Me I used a variety of 'em , until I broke a Randall ( a real one) now I just use decent quality production knives for such things , Cold Steel is good and they're replaceable. Customs and collectors pieces aren't.

    Don't take a knife you can't lose.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 11/23/2011 12:08pm at .
  6. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 12:33pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    It's a myth. And when someone tells you they hunt hogs with a knife then immediately ask them two things , the first being what state they live in , since of course it's illegal in many states.
    He's in Australia, a land full of unwanted animals, so I'll bet the laws are pretty open.
  7. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 12:56pm

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    It's a myth. And when someone tells you they hunt hogs with a knife then immediately ask them two things , the first being what state they live in , since of course it's illegal in many states.

    The ask 'em what sort of catch dogs they utilise and how many they lose.

    If they stammer and sidestep on either of those then they're full of **** and attempting to accentuate their testosterone. Same thing with all the " I hunt Boar with a spear" bullshit 90 percent of which is talk , though there *is* some of it in Hawaii.
    Far north queensland. Kids are out here doing it. Otherwise I know he has dogs and I have spoken to guys who have hunted with him.

    Every pig here is feral. And there is no restriction on hunting them.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 11/23/2011 1:01pm at .
  8. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 1:56pm


     Style: Kempo

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Far north queensland. Kids are out here doing it. Otherwise I know he has dogs and I have spoken to guys who have hunted with him.

    Every pig here is feral. And there is no restriction on hunting them.

    The majority of hogs in this country are feral , there is some old blood russian influence
    in some places from escaped game farm stock , and in places like the Cal central coast where Hearst turned 'em loose for his chi chi buddies and they interbred with escaped domestics.

    How big are they are running down there? An anecdotally observable syndrome is that they're getting larger over time here , in some areas quite a lot larger , though many of the
    HogZilla type stories can be safely discounted.

    Some place here do have some restrictions , where I live it's merely a license and a stamp and that's a recent development some places still have little to no restriction. They are essentially a trash creature here that wreaks havoc on the native flora and fauna , they're way out of control in some places Here in the boonies Fish and Game looks the other way if the residents turn them into coyote food that's how bad it's gotten.

    I'd be interested in knowing what he's using for dogs , both for catch dogs and for strike and bay dogs.
  9. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2011 11:58am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Damn, WR...What the ****'s up with you and bayonets? We had this discussion like three years ago and you've still got a hardon for bayonets? Do you have a fetish or something? lol.

    Like it has already been pointed out, bayonet training is about aggression. Put the bayonet on the rifle and stab **** while screaming and not giving a **** if you die. Mix it up with a butt stroke and a parry every so often for funsies. That's it.

    There's nothing complex or interesting about bayonet training. It's a last resort and is basically trained as a side note, if at all. Also, stabbing a tire with a rifle equipped with a bayonet hurts like ****.

    If you want to simulate bayonet training in an alive fashion, try pugil sticks. There's not much more to say about bayonets.

    Thanks to everyone for all the responses. I've read them all carefully. The contemporary bayonet drills look like quite a lot of fun. Very interesting to learn about the emphasis on appropriate mentality.

    I've been researching the topic further. Found a few interesting historical nuggets. I found one publication that claims to contain information from a Japanese Pacific War bayonet manual. If the publication is genuine or contains genuine information, that would mean that the Japanese manual contained more varied techniques than other manuals of the era. These techniques were not so implausible to cause me to discard the publication as an obvious fake. For example, there were judo-style foot sweeps used in conjunction with a bayonet attack. That's not beyond the realm of possibility that that could have been in a manual. There was a buttstroke counter where when your opponent attempts a rising buttstroke, you buttstroke his lead elbow, with the bolt on your rifle turned towards him, so you ram the metal portion of your Arisaka hard into his elbow. Interesting stuff but based on the info I have, I can't be 100% certain that the contents are historically genuine.

    There's also a manual from the 1800s that has a little bit more fancy technique than the contemporary bayonet training, such as the "lance point", or use of feints: http://www.thortrains.net/downloads/...tembayonet.pdf

    I imagine that with the relatively slow reload times of 1800s weaponry probably line infantry ended up in more mass hand to hand combat situations, or else they would get charged by cavalry, so the use of bayonets was more key to survival than today.

    Here's a publication from 1890, which includes the infamous "throw point" technique; notice also the relatively elaborate parrying drills. In the section "bayonet vs. sabre" at the end, the author is already lamenting how bayonet reach is now shorter and changes the dynamic between bayonet and sabre...I guess that today that trend is even more extreme, given how short military pattern rifles are compared to classic bolt action rifles or muskets: http://www.thortrains.net/downloads/...Hutton1890.doc


    All very fascinating stuff!
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  10. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2011 12:00pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    we've an interesting little smaller " hog" over here too that's native to the southwest that you might of heard of that's a whole different kettle of fish too, the various Peccaries or Javelinas , their social dynamic is similar to feral hogs but even more so , the vast majority of the time they'll come to a distress squeal , and when I say come to it I mean the whole damn pack and they'll quite literally shred a dog , you wouldn't want to be afoot in the middle of a bunch of them with their adrenaline up either , they take care of their own and give no quarter. Gutsy , very smart little critters. A pleasure to just sit and watch.
    Wow, that sounds amazing. Maybe in the future I'll have to research hunting Javelinas.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
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