A rant on Denigration of Europe.

[Bneterasedmynam]

1. That's why I do not recommend real swords for self-defence. 2. You seem to confuse a full-scale shield (round, heater, kite) with a buckler. Bucklers were very light and moblile "iron fists", some 10-14" diameter, which could be used as a weapon of its own - smacking in the face, covering the sword hand (as routinely depicted in MS I.33) and deflecting the opponent's blows. Here some I.33 stuff:



As you see bucklers give you much more room for swinging than full-size shields. A good solid buckler and a (expandable) baton are best suited to beat the crap out of any criminal without killing him. A certified baton, a round piece of steel, the cops may wonder about but if a baton is legal at yout country/state there are no known restrictions to shields. Carrying a shield for self-defence is perfectly legal anywhere.

I got an idea - how about buckler & legal pepper spray? Bucklers can effectively protect you against knife attacks and Mr. 2 Million Scoville will do the rest.

PS: Personally I think that european sword & buckler arts of 14-15th centuries are one of the most versatile self-defence systems ever created. But that's just me...

Actually a buckler could technically be considered a weapon from a legal standpoint and could in fact be considered an illegal carry in some places. I am aware of what a buckler is and it's use, as I stated earlier I practice HEMA style arts too. But you should still realize that blunt weapons have a lesser over all degree of lethality than a bladed weapon, which is the preferred and designed counterpart for a buckler. In otherwords a buckler was designed to match with a sword not a baton. Using a style that was designed to have a lethal weapon with it only using a non-lethal weapon is silly. It would be like the aikido of western arts. There are just more practical ways of defending yourself other than walking around like a knight. And again I'm not saying the weapon styles themselves are not effective, just impractical. Now if your looking for a way to make a sword art into a defense art, may I suggest a collapsable baton. No buckler or shield cause let's face it he cops would put you in a rubber room for that one. Just make sure it's legal to carry one where you live because I know where I live they consider a collapsable baton a concealed weapon.

[Bneterasedmynam]

Someone sell me a cheap backyard cutter! The damn Tinker Early Medieval sword is always sold out.

Just buy one of these:
It may not be a sword exactly but it is cheap and does cut good

[Homernoid]

You know best, I talk bullcrap, right? Fine, then would you please inform me what are your sorces. Do you even know who Ewart Oakeshott was? Alan Williams? Jan Petersen? Manfred Sachse? Ever heard of Johannes Liechtenauer, Fiore dei Liberi, Manuscript I.33? Give me some proof that you actually know something about western weaponry. I gave plenty of links in this thread, now its on you...

name-dropping and avoiding my point won't help you. did someone dropped you as a child or were you born that stupid?

PS: "idiot, otherwise be my guest, I'm near Frankfurt/Main." - a clear sign of poor argumentation. I do not accept martial challenges from anonymous guys on Internet

wrong again. a clear sign of my frustration resulting from your lack of comprehension.

this is, why I'm going to repeat myself, but will do so in English and German. However you are a drama queen-**** anyway.

[Permalost]

O brave Sir Kenning, take pity on us, and use your sharp, well made European sword to slay this great dragon of ignorance that has been terrorizing the masses!

[Homernoid]

Drama **** wrote:

On TOPIC!
Everyone knows that european swordblades were blunt by design and were more bashing clubs than cutting tools. Asian swords were sharp. Europeans apparently didn't knew how to use whetstones and files to make sharp blades.

... Of course it's pure bullshit. Here one of the best links I found concerning sharpness of original blades: Edge Bevels and blade geometry of original swords.
But unlike other myths I know where it comes from. Decades of mass produced wallhangers, stage combat safe props and rusted antiques have led to the notion anything "european" has to be blunt. Epees and smallswords were pure thrusters, the only swordsmanship remained in 20th century was foil fencing. That's it. Only since 2000er affordable authentic sharp european blades are available (Albions, ATrims), which are actually made for real use and not only for "looking good". You can not blame people for this, not really.

My response:

to the second part, from where you bold-marked it, I can agree with ease. I wouldn't even complain about it.
clearly, the second part is the adjustment of the first part.
it is kenning's heavy exaggerated presumptions I mock. Indeed I doubt one would find a majority of people that do believe medieval swords were crude or clubs etc.

so, why do I believe that bold part? Because:

I absolute don't know for the US.

As for Germany or even generally Europe I am under the impression that there is much cultural/historical knowledge beeing passed to population unintentionally.
keep in mind, there is a ton of castles, ruins etc here, people visit with their children on weekends when visiting the zoo is getting boring.

so in plain and simple words:
it is very unlikely to grow up in Germany and many other european countries without having visited castles and castle museum with pieces of medieval weaponry as a child or pupil. Every guide is going to tell weight and data to that **** more than one would ask.

so indeed, that being bullshit, as stated by kenning:

On TOPIC!
Everyone knows that european swordblades were blunt by design and were more bashing clubs than cutting tools. Asian swords were sharp. Europeans apparently didn't knew how to use whetstones and files to make sharp blades.

... Of course it's pure bullshit. [...]

is more or less common knowledge, propably not in the US, but here it is. Ofcourse you would have to substract fucktards that believe every **** they see on tv, but you have to give me that one.

now very short in German:

Wer in Deutschland und etlichen anderen europäischen Staaten nicht nur mit Glotze ausgestattet ist und den Scheiß drin glaubt, sondern mal auf ne öffentliche Schule gegangen ist (immer nur Zoo ist ja langweilig) und über diese einen dümmlichen Ausflug in ein Museum, etwa an eine Burgruine angegliedert, gemacht hat, hat Schwerter, Rüstungen usw. zuhauf gesehen, hat gesagt bekommen wie schwer/leicht die waren, usw. Es ist Allgemeinwissen. Wie den Dreisatz rechnen auch - kann auch nicht jeder, aber die gibts überall.
Wenn du die Behauptung aufstellst, es wäre anders, und nicht Allgemeinwissen sondern eben unbekannt oder dergleichen, dann stehst du wie jeder, der eine Behauptung aufstellt vor der Aufgabe selbige zu belegen. Anekdoten sind kein Beleg. Du bist ein Depp.

[KO'd N DOA]

One argument that is missing kenningstein is that the marketing of MA and the numerous books, equipment and ancillery products filling wherehouses to be sold. In order to create a market you need to have dissatisfaction with what you have and have an upgrade. It is the nature of marketing.

(aside: have you tried Tomahawks? Great for throwing, threatening, and you can do all the backyard firewood that you want. North America has awesome weapons of lore too!!!Racist)

[Homernoid]

Actually, I guess, propably european populations knowledge on medieval weaponry could be compared to american population's knowledge on tomahawks. maybe this makes my reservation on drama-cunts pseudo-rant easier to understand.

Edit: still this makes drama-**** a fucktard

[kenning]

OK, I switch to German....

mal auf ne öffentliche Schule gegangen ist (immer nur Zoo ist ja langweilig) und über diese einen dümmlichen Ausflug in ein Museum, etwa an eine Burgruine angegliedert, gemacht hat, hat Schwerter, Rüstungen usw. zuhauf gesehen, hat gesagt bekommen wie schwer/leicht die waren, usw. Es ist Allgemeinwissen.
Wenn du die Behauptung aufstellst, es wäre anders, und nicht Allgemeinwissen sondern eben unbekannt oder dergleichen, dann stehst du wie jeder, der eine Behauptung aufstellt vor der Aufgabe selbige zu belegen.

Das Gewicht der Waffen und Rüstungen kann man durchaus im Museum oder in der Schule erfahren, wenn der Lehrer mal darüber bescheid weiß, aber das ist nur ein kleiner Teil des dazugehörigen Wissens. Was lehrt dich denn das Museum (Ausflüge, Ruinen, Mittelaltermärkte) bezüglich der Schmiedetechnik? Wie wurde denn mit den Waffen gekämpft? Die meisten Kuratoren wissen die Kinge geschichtlich einzuschätzen, ihre Maße, Gewicht, kunsthistorische Bedeutung, dann hörts aber auf. Museen wie das Klingenmuseum in Solingen sind eher Ausnahme als die Regel.

Na, wie wurde denn so eine Klinge aus sagen wir mal 13 Jh. geschmiedet? Wie wurde sie denn eingesetzt? Wieviel wog sie denn? Klingenhärte? Stahlanalysen? Stell diese Fragen mal den "erleuchteten allgemeinwissenden Museumsbesuchern", da wirst du dein blaues Wunder erleben. Exakt diesselben Fragen bezüglich der japanischen Schwertern würde wirklich jeder Depp beantworten, aber bei Europa hörts auf.

Wirklich, ich wills hören. Was ist denn dein Stand des Wissens? Du scheinst doch einer dieser Erleuchteten zu sein, die Fragen stehen oben. Wenn als Antwort wieder mal nur Beleidigungen kommen und nichts konkretes, dann ist die Diskussion zu Ende.

*No bad words, racism or other harmful ideas were expressed in this text.

[Permalost]

It's only a matter of time before a thread on the denigration of Europe turns into rants in German.

[Rivington]

Strange enough, again a Taijiquan-oka who blames me. [B]If Asia is hyped and Europe gets bullshitted it's not racism, right??

Right, it's not. The second a bunch of Chinese people surround you and beat you up because your ancestors used blunt swords, or the moment you're turned down for a job because you're a "stinky barbarian" you might have a case. Until then, you're just upset because you're a mediocre idiot looking to improve your own self-image and self-concept by tying yourself to the accomplishments of whom you imagine your ancestors to be.

But IF Europe is given credit it deserves - oh ur racist, cause if Europe = good, it means you say Asia = crap!! WTF?

So, my takeaways so far are:

1. you consider yourself the victim of racism because some people like Japanese swords. Indeed, you consider this the "denigration of Europe" itself, as can be seen by the title of this thread which, embarrassingly, was on the front page of this site.

2. you're waiting for a big riot to happen so you can kill rioters with your sword.

3. you think "-oka" is a suffix used in Chinese martial arts.


So yeah, like I was saying, hysterical ninny.