A rant on Denigration of Europe.

**kenning** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 6:33am

Originally Posted by Rivington

How many major pages till kenning starts blaming the Jews?

This would make no sense for me cause some medieval/renaissance fight masters were actually Jews. Ott Jud, Andres Juden, for instance. *grin*

Strange enough, again a Taijiquan-oka who blames me. If Asia is hyped and Europe gets bullshitted it's not racism, right?? But IF Europe is given credit it deserves - oh ur racist, cause if Europe = good, it means you say Asia = crap!! WTF? Ever tried "parity" instead of "superiority" or "inferiority"?

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

I see sword training as being less plausible for use other than fun over martial arts or at least some martial arts. As a self defense art I say it's useless.
At least in my opinion sword arts are just impractical, however it certainly becomes more practical if the training is for sport.

You think more of traditional sports like foil fencing and japanese sword arts. I completely agree, these arts are not "useful" in modern life. But there are some things which are indeed still practical - how about sword & buckler? A buckler together with a riot baton will be extremely effective in modern street fighting and home self-defence, given that your foes have no guns. Royal Armouries MS I.33 was written around 1300 AD and it still can be used directly for seld-defence training. Medieval warrior and his modern counterpart. Looks pretty same to me.

**BCS** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 7:36am

Huh, fancy that. At first I thought that Homernoid was troling Kenner, but it seems that he may be in earnest after all. Relax, guys. With the vast quantities of fine German beer to be had close at hand, you waste your time typing angrily on the internetz? LOL

**kenning** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 8:04am

Originally Posted by BCS

Huh, fancy that. At first I thought that Homernoid was troling Kenner, but it seems that he may be in earnest after all. Relax, guys. With the vast quantities of fine German beer to be had close at hand, you waste your time typing angrily on the internetz? LOL

I'm cool mate. Not the first time I'm getting attacked by Asian martial arts practitioners who can not stand Europe being anywhere close to Asia. Now awaiting Homernoids last insult, then I'll give it up. Out of my large experience any "keyboard holy war" with such peepl is in vain.

**kenning** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 8:14am

BTW I never said that "European sword arts are best" as many of CMA's and JMA's seem to assume. Who the fuk said that?! Another big sword myth is - one culture has better swords arts than another one! There is no such thing as "superior or inferior martial and sword arts"!! Any of these arts were created for a distinctive purpose, so were swords. Even the worst Bullshido-arts have a purpose - bullshitting people. They prove much more effective in that than MA's created for beating up people.

Inherent superiority of certain martial arts is bullcrap. Deal with it.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 9:23am

Originally Posted by kenning

This would make no sense for me cause some medieval/renaissance fight masters were actually Jews. Ott Jud, Andres Juden, for instance. *grin*

Strange enough, again a Taijiquan-oka who blames me. If Asia is hyped and Europe gets bullshitted it's not racism, right?? But IF Europe is given credit it deserves - oh ur racist, cause if Europe = good, it means you say Asia = crap!! WTF? Ever tried "parity" instead of "superiority" or "inferiority"?

You think more of traditional sports like foil fencing and japanese sword arts. I completely agree, these arts are not "useful" in modern life. But there are some things which are indeed still practical - how about sword & buckler? A buckler together with a riot baton will be extremely effective in modern street fighting and home self-defence, given that your foes have no guns. Royal Armouries MS I.33 was written around 1300 AD and it still can be used directly for seld-defence training. Medieval warrior and his modern counterpart. Looks pretty same to me.

The dynamic of using a sword and shield is far different from that of a baton. A sword relies heavily on the fact that it is a lethal weapon for the style to work. For instance it is much more difficult to charge someone with a sword since they can run you through, however a baton does not have that same luxury. There lies the practicality problem, for a sword to be an effective defensive weapon it has to be used as a lethal weapon. If you truly are trained in the sword arts then you know the danger of being disarmed once an opponent passes the tip. Sure you might still cut them but the ability for a fight ending or lethal strike is all but gone at that point. Not to mention how difficult it would be to explain it to the cops on how you "defended" yourself. Swords are best used as offensive weapons to kill, they have little value for defense and get someone with thick clothes and you might just end up on the ground getting punched. A swords length can be a disadvantage. Also it's not like you can walk around armed 24/7 with a sword at your side.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 10:26am

Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja

I took the OP to be about misconceptions or falsehoods about European Metallurgy and blade quality, when compared to perceptions of Japanese/eastern swordmaking.

I didn't take it that he was complaining the techniques were bad, or that he had the real deadly. Perhaps I should re-read it. I'd assumed he was trying to fight the stereotype of crappy or dull European weaponry when compared to the east.

@Kenning. Am I reading this right, that you're a history buff, who also likes to chop **** w/ swords in the back yard? Your rant seemed well sourced to my eyes.

Wasn't this essay about the inaccurate view of history, and not that the ninjers don't have the r3al fighting skills, when compared to yours?

That is how it started yes, however when he started complaining about how movies were spreading mis-information by not using real medieval moves it degraded into something else. I would take post 41 and 48 as being his claims of superior d3adly ability, unless I'm reading more into it than is there. My post was more a response to those statements than the original OP which I mostly agreed with. When someone claims swordfighting as a viable defense art I have to call it what it is: LARPing lol.

**kenning** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 10:44am

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

The dynamic of using a sword and shield is far different from that of a baton. A sword relies heavily on the fact that it is a lethal weapon for the style to work. For instance it is much more difficult to charge someone with a sword since they can run you through, however a baton does not have that same luxury. There lies the practicality problem, for a sword to be an effective defensive weapon it has to be used as a lethal weapon. If you truly are trained in the sword arts then you know the danger of being disarmed once an opponent passes the tip. Sure you might still cut them but the ability for a fight ending or lethal strike is all but gone at that point. Not to mention how difficult it would be to explain it to the cops on how you "defended" yourself. Swords are best used as offensive weapons to kill, they have little value for defense and get someone with thick clothes and you might just end up on the ground getting punched.

1. That's why I do not recommend real swords for self-defence. 2. You seem to confuse a full-scale shield (round, heater, kite) with a buckler. Bucklers were very light and moblile "iron fists", some 10-14" diameter, which could be used as a weapon of its own - smacking in the face, covering the sword hand (as routinely depicted in MS I.33) and deflecting the opponent's blows. Here some I.33 stuff:

As you see bucklers give you much more room for swinging than full-size shields. A good solid buckler and a (expandable) baton are best suited to beat the crap out of any criminal without killing him. A certified baton, a round piece of steel, the cops may wonder about but if a baton is legal at yout country/state there are no known restrictions to shields. Carrying a shield for self-defence is perfectly legal anywhere.

I got an idea - how about buckler & legal pepper spray? Bucklers can effectively protect you against knife attacks and Mr. 2 Million Scoville will do the rest.

PS: Personally I think that european sword & buckler arts of 14-15th centuries are one of the most versatile self-defence systems ever created. But that's just me...

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 11:03am

Someone sell me a cheap backyard cutter! The damn Tinker Early Medieval sword is always sold out.

**Wing-Kwan-Fu** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 11:06am

Kenning, do you traipse around with a buckler?

**kenning** · Posted On: 11/18/2011 11:11am

Originally Posted by Wing-Kwan-Fu

Kenning, do you traipse around with a buckler?

And what if? Seriously I did used one twice, it was fun. A perfect tool to deflect-n-hit, the rim is also perfect to knock ones teeth out. But since I have no proper training in I.33 fighting art dont think I'm a buckler-fu master.

The whole topic went OFF...