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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Achilles vs Heelhook

    One of my fellow bjj whitebelts who has done some shootfighting made a comment yesterday I'm not sold on. I wasn't able to ask my instructor as a number of us were on our way to our cars when it came up.

    What the guy said was that achilles locks are not usually going to ever cause real damage, most of the time you don't have proper leverage. This is why, he said, you usually don't ever see anyone tap to one and you see people switch to heelhooks. Is this accurate?

    I tap anytime someone grabs my foot because I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but down the road this might be good info to have. Omega's opinion would be appreciated in particular.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    WhiteShark's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hell yeah they do damage! I didn't tap quick enough to one Osiris had on me at the last throwdown and my ankle made a horrible popping sound then was swollen for 2 days and sore for a month.

  3. #3

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe its me but, how to do you one without involving they other ??
    The lock on the ankle will put pressure on the achilles in most positions, no?
    A heel hook still puts pressure on the achilles tendon, no?

  4. #4

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    Just to be clear we are all talking about an achilles where essentially you're pulling your forearm into the achilles tendon and the pulling is on the tendons and ligaments on the front of the foot and leg, right?
    Last edited by Dochter; 5/26/2004 1:15pm at .

  5. #5

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As opposed to a keel hook which twists the leg at the foot and messes with the ligaments of the knee:

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by ronin69
    Maybe its me but, how to do you one without involving they other ??
    The lock on the ankle will put pressure on the achilles in most positions, no?
    A heel hook still puts pressure on the achilles tendon, no?
    Exerting pressure in different directions.

    Omega should be the one answering these though, certainly not me.

  7. #7

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks big guy :)

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problems I typically see/have with applying the achilles is people not able to actually apply pressure to the achilles. In many instances they apply the pressure just slightly above the achilles, in which case the bone is bigger/stronger there and therefore no serious injury will occur, and why some people dont tap.

    But when the lock is applied directly to the achilles/ankle...you'd better tap.
    Last edited by BigRod; 5/26/2004 1:51pm at .

  9. #9
    Punisher's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of my fellow bjj whitebelts who has done some shootfighting made a comment yesterday I'm not sold on. I wasn't able to ask my instructor as a number of us were on our way to our cars when it came up.

    What the guy said was that achilles locks are not usually going to ever cause real damage, most of the time you don't have proper leverage. This is why, he said, you usually don't ever see anyone tap to one and you see people switch to heelhooks. Is this accurate?
    I'll defer to Omega on this one too, but I've heard Bas Ruten say basically the same thing during Pride contests.

    In fact in his Big Book of Combat Volume 2, Chapter 3, pg 225 he says:

    If somebody gets me in training in a simple Achilles pull, and I am in a period just before a fight, I tap. Why go into a fight injured? But hear me when I say that on that same Achilles pull, I will never tap during a fight. This is a move that just hurts; it doesn't break anything and is easy to defend. I'm talking about the straight Achilles pull here, not when he brings your leg over to the other side.
    Last edited by Punisher; 5/26/2004 4:07pm at .

  10. #10

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the help. I'll try and keep it in mind later when it becomes important. For now I'll keep tapping whenever someone touches my feet. :D

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