Why are frauds easier to find than professionals?!

**PowerfulFellow** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 1:32am

In my few years of training in karate, I've trained with an instructor who is completely no BS. He works about 10 pressure points, and doesn't bother with the other 150 that other infamous "martial" artists attempt to manipulate. He does not shed light on chi, he does not speak of esoteric stories or alleged mystical enlightenment through his 30 years of training. He is a man who devotes himself entirely to his dojo, commends a large amount of respect, and doesn't take bullshit excuses. He is a man who will truly instill discipline.

However, he is NOT well known. He is no George Dillman. In other words, why are these frauds so prevalent and easy to find while true teachers remain in a blur? While training in karate, my friend and I came across George Dillman. Attended two seminars, and recognized his inflated claims. :RetardDog:

Even here, training in Aikido which is arguably one of the most controversial martial arts when coming to practicality, I landed a dojo that welcomes Luis Alba into it's confines one day a week, for one hour. I've taken a couple classes with him, and thought he was legit. His form was great, his techniques were solid, and his training with a katana/bokken/jo seemed legitimate.

And then I read his bio... And then I "googled" his name and this site found me again, finding yet another artist I have the ability to train with on here... smeared with fraudulent ****.

So, for all those tl;dr individuals: Why are "frauds" so much easier to find than people who are accredited? Why aren't there any "professionals" giving seminars as much as these "frauds?" I dare to say although fraudulent, they are more outgoing in the arts, despite the bullshit in their arts...

Bill "Superfoot" Wallace and Hanshi Herb Johnson are the only two martial artists who withhold a great deal of respect, and are legitimate martial artists who have/had devoted the climax of their lives to the martial arts.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 1:50am

Chuck Norris, Dan Inosanto, Gene Lebell, Mas Oyama, and Helio Gracie need to be added to your list just to name a few off the top of my Head.

Oh and no Herb Johnson is not on that list. Not knocking the guy at all, but you need to stop.

**PowerfulFellow** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 2:00am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

you need to stop.

Stop what?

**alex** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 2:50am

Originally Posted by PowerfulFellow

In my few years of training in karate, I've trained with an instructor who is completely no BS. He works about 10 pressure points, and doesn't bother with the other 150 that other infamous "martial" artists attempt to manipulate. He does not shed light on chi, he does not speak of esoteric stories or alleged mystical enlightenment through his 30 years of training. He is a man who devotes himself entirely to his dojo, commends a large amount of respect, and doesn't take bullshit excuses. He is a man who will truly instill discipline.

However, he is NOT well known. He is no George Dillman. In other words, why are these frauds so prevalent and easy to find while true teachers remain in a blur? While training in karate, my friend and I came across George Dillman. Attended two seminars, and recognized his inflated claims. :RetardDog:

i dont know whether you are a bit slow or actually dont know, but its because he makes crazy claims that people know who he is. this is kinda obvious dont you think?

So, for all those tl;dr individuals: Why are "frauds" so much easier to find than people who are accredited? Why aren't there any "professionals" giving seminars as much as these "frauds?" I dare to say although fraudulent, they are more outgoing in the arts, despite the bullshit in their arts...

you dont find so many frauds in arts that arent full of bullshit. go look up fraudulent boxing, kickboxing, judo, bjj etc instructors, you tend to find less of them because its a put up or shut up environment. a lot of 'traditional" arts are almost perfectly designed for bullshit peddlers.

Bill "Superfoot" Wallace and Hanshi Herb Johnson are the only two martial artists who withhold a great deal of respect, and are legitimate martial artists who have/had devoted the climax of their lives to the martial arts.

uh, what? somehow i feel there are a lot more than two.

**FinalLegion** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 5:56am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Chuck Norris, Dan Inosanto, Gene Lebell, Mas Oyama, and Helio Gracie need to be added to your list just to name a few off the top of my Head.

Oh and no Herb Johnson is not on that list. Not knocking the guy at all, but you need to stop.

In all seriousness, would you say Ed Parker, Pat Johnson and Jeff Speakman should be on this list or no?

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 8:23am

Originally Posted by PowerfulFellow

Why are frauds easier to find than professionals?!

Try changing your google search criteria from "Martial arts frauds" to "Martial Arts professionals".

I know certain that once I got more specific in my search criteria, the quality of p0rn I was downloading improved enormously. I'm confident the method is transferable to other subjects.

**dflanmod** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 12:27pm

Originally Posted by Ignorami

I know certain that once I got more specific in my search criteria, the quality of p0rn I was downloading improved enormously. I'm confident the method is transferable to other subjects.

Tell me about it. Vast difference in results between a "donkey p0rn" search and "ass p0rn" search.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 12:40pm

Someone Madoff with my 'professional-fraud' tag.

In any case, one obvious answer to the thread-title query is that one can be a legit instructor without a huge amount of self-promotion: rep spread via word-of-mouth, small gym, dedicated participants and so on. If big money isn't the goal, this approach may work quite well.

Frauds--more likely in it for the income rather than for other reasons--would tend to find such an arrangement unsatisfactory. They would opt, instead, for the routes towards more cash more commonly-chosen amongst all fraudsters, both in and out of MA. Aggressive self-promotion tends to be part of that scenario.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 1:16pm

Originally Posted by PowerfulFellow

Stop what?

Bill "Superfoot" Wallace and Hanshi Herb Johnson are the only two martial artists who withhold a great deal of respect, and are legitimate martial artists who have/had devoted the climax of their lives to the martial arts.

They are not the only two that fit that criteria. The fact you need to even try and post that inflammatory statement and think it would pass is funny.

Yes, I noticed immediately what style you practiced and what Herb Johnson practices.

Originally Posted by FinalLegion

In all seriousness, would you say Ed Parker, Pat Johnson and Jeff Speakman should be on this list or no?

In my personal opinion list? No. Does it mean they were terrible or not important? Nope.

**Rawb_Prime** · Posted On: 11/09/2011 3:54pm

Originally Posted by alex

i dont know whether you are a bit slow or actually dont know, but its because he makes crazy claims that people know who he is. This is kinda obvious dont you think?

You dont find so many frauds in arts that arent full of bullshit. Go look up fraudulent boxing, kickboxing, judo, bjj etc instructors, you tend to find less of them because its a put up or shut up environment. A lot of 'traditional" arts are almost perfectly designed for bullshit peddlers.

Uh, what? Somehow i feel there are a lot more than two.

great breakdown!