FMA stick twirling and application

**Pharabus** · Posted On: 11/10/2011 9:47am

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

A redondo is a vertical, downward strike, either forehand or backhand, where the stick stays on the same side of the body, and the hand/forearm makes a complete 360-degree rotation. Easier to understand if you saw it, but I can't find any youtube clips.

I try not to use too many Filipino terms, for a couple reasons.

First, I just assume I'm mangling the pronounciation.

Second, the terms aren't universal - f'rinstance, I was taught the term dumog for grappling, but in some dialects, it means "a fight to the death" and buno is the term for grappling. Not a good mistake to make. Or mention that you were practicing hubud and get weird looks from the Pinoy who wonders why you got half-naked.

Third, I don't need people getting confused about what I'm asking 'em to do. If it's a specific term (like when I use largo, medio, corto in discussions about range) it is because I'm talking about a very specific context.

You should have seen the look on my wife's face (she is Pinay) the first time i told her we were practicing hubud in class!!

We actually have a technique called "the other one"

**tim_stl** · Posted On: 11/10/2011 10:06am

Originally Posted by jspeedy

I was using the term twirling to describe any general 360 deg. rotation motion of a type of strike.

Assuming that the style of Balintawak that you study is Bobby Taboada's style (that's the only place I've heard the term 'shadow fighting' to refer to a form), the double strikes are what are commonly referred to as redondos in FMA (a redondo just being a strike that starts and ends in the same spot, with the tip traveling in a circle/ellipse). Done properly, they do have an application. However, most of the performances of the 'shadow fighting' that I've seen are not done in a way where the double and triple strikes would be effective.

Tim

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 11/10/2011 10:13pm

Originally Posted by tim_stl

Assuming that the style of Balintawak that you study is Bobby Taboada's style (that's the only place I've heard the term 'shadow fighting' to refer to a form), the double strikes are what are commonly referred to as redondos in FMA (a redondo just being a strike that starts and ends in the same spot, with the tip traveling in a circle/ellipse). Done properly, they do have an application. However, most of the performances of the 'shadow fighting' that I've seen are not done in a way where the double and triple strikes would be effective.

Tim

Yes i train Bobby Taboada lineage Balintawak. Thanks for explaining redondos Tim and Chilipepper. As for redondos or double strikes as we call them in the shadowfighting drill; the strike is pretty much a full circular rotation done on the same side of the body followed by a full power strike that follows through to the other side of the body. So i'm not sure if what i'm describing is a true redondo or if it's just a redondo followed by a strike.

@ Tim I mentioned earlier that usually the double strikes (redondos?) in shadow fighting look different when actually used to hit a bag or tire. I have noticed that some guys like Bobby Taboada do less of a circular motion and have more of a strike followed by a pulling back motion-folloed up with the second full power strike. The faster I go the more twirly the strike looks and thus less practical.

**Basagulero** · Posted On: 11/12/2011 8:48am

Originally Posted by Permalost

In my view, twirling is circles or figure eights applied with continuity. Does that have fighting application? Sure, used intelligently. Linking circular motions can be used to force a block high and strike across the torso or leg. They can be used to block then counter fluidly. They can be used to insert a wrap/sunkiti/doblado before a standard strike. But less subtly, they are used to recover after a power forehand or backhand. After a hard fast swing, the energy has to either bleed off in a controlled circle or be forcefully stopped. This motion is what some people call a tail, and with the proper dexterity the tail can load up a power shot in the other direction. On the other hand while twirling can be applicable, it is not necessarily applicable.

In lightning scientific arnis we train to deliver "twirling strikes" with full power. The "Doblada" (two circular strikes fired in the same timing as a regular diagonal strike) is used to clear the weapon in the first strike and then land on the second. Or simply - land two full powered strikes in rapid succession.

The Figure 8 or "Ocho" is also treated as multiple power strikes used to control center space and to smash anything that crosses attack line. I did a small workshop in September where I demonstrated the applications of the ocho. We treat these twirls as advanced applications of basic strikes.

I demonstrate this a few times in this clip:

**RynoGreene** · Posted On: 11/15/2011 9:13pm

Nice to see some more LSAI folks on here!

Generally in LESKAS/LSAI we refer to twirling as a general stickhandling/warmup exercise with no direct combat applicability.

Doblada strikes are how we refer to double strikes, as Basagulero noted. We'll do them from forehand or backhand, and can be used as a stick clear/strike, as a block/strike, or hand strike/head strike with with advancing footwork.

We'll also use verticals in a circular repeating manner occasionally. (LESKAS combination 11, etc). This can be from forehand or backhand. I particularly like the open side forehand vertical when entangled and somewhat head-on, as it's a good way to keep your weapon clear of a grab if you've already got your opponent's grabbed or you have him checked. The vertical allows of a tight retraction, but you can still get a lot of power on it.

Throwing a high diagonal once you're in close often just gives him a good grab opportunity. Just keep a left lead, maintain your check/grab, and if he reaches out to get the overwrap, just retract tight on the vertical and hit him on the tips of the fingers. Repeat as necessary.

**animal_stylez** · Posted On: 4/03/2012 3:34pm

In the system of Kombatan that I train in we do use a "twirling" strike as an application. We train against tires or heavy bags to practice the application of it with either the doblete, doblada and the redonda. It takes time to use it efficiently with power, simply doing it in the air is easy, but to hit a hard target over and over with power is tiring and if not trained you will lose power in any strike.

The twirling is also a way to keep your hand moving and not make it an easy target that can be focused on when fighting if it's just sitting in one general position. It's can also be used to feint when attacking and change the direction of a strike.